I think you're overreacting a bit. Petsmart is actually fairly invested in cleaning, and the predictable accidents are usually cleaned up right when they happen.
And what does the vaccination history of other dogs have to do with anything? As long as their dog is vaccinated, what's going to happen?
Petsmart was a great place for our pup to socialize early on, before he was big enough to go to the dog park. I personally think the socialization is well worth any possible risk of some not-entirely cleaned up poo.
Um, no. Not overreaction. They use wax on the floor, not a parvocide (can tell you that from working there). Our local petsmart has been responsible for a parvo outbreak. Our local rescue groups won't take pups there for adoption days- only adults.
I definately think socialization is VERY important (and I socialize my guys more heavily than pretty much anyone else I know) but petsmart is a HORRIBLE place to do it. It's absolutely NOT better than the dog park.
The initial 6 week old vaccine for parvo varies in efficiancy based on the decline of maternal antibodies and is somewhat effected by when the puppy was weaned, as I understand it- this is why you do more than one set of vaccinations (with the current AVMA guidelines being 6 (parvo only), 8 (combo), 12 (combo) 16 (combo + rabies)- I think that's right, but I don't have it memorized) and puppies are not considered fully vaccinated until 16 weeks when all maternal antibodies are out of their system and their own immune system has fully kicked in.
My puppies go to banks (many local non-chain or small chain banks allow dogs as long as they're polite, and obviously this isn't a 'go in and hang out' it's walk in, drop off my deposit, and go back out, but it's great practice for leash manners and polite public behavior. Blockbuster video is the same deal. :) We spend a lot of time sitting up on the patio area at Sonic, at outdoor cafes where dogs are allowed but rarely present (since most people don't want to spend time corraling their dogs, they're there to socialize!) Basically any place dogs are allowed but that is not a place dogs frequent (and that requires them to be well-behaved- most puppies under 4 months are complient enough (and easy enough to tire out :)) that these places work well for them. We also go to dogs allowed but remote places like the more distant trailheads at the Texas state parks, the less accessible areas of city parks and a couple of local wildlife preserves that have (unpaved) hiking trails that allow leashed dogs. Since the dog park opened, these places have all cracked down on of-leash dogs and most dog owners have quit taking their dogs there since the attraction in the first place was being able to let your dogs run. At four months, Petsmart is FANTASTIC, as is a good dog park- their immune system is good enough to kick any nasties, as long as they've gotten their full shots. Another good option, if you've got friends with dogs and a backyard, is to set up a time when you and your friends with dogs can bring puppies and dogs that are all vaccinated as best as possible and gentle with smaller dogs or puppies to play in a place that you know no unvaccinated dogs have been (IE someone's backyard)
The puppy that I know personally that got parvo from petsmart? Had one round of parvo shots at 7 weeks but no others, his owner didn't think he needed more than one shot. He was 6 months when he got sick and it was nerve wracking, since he's part of Mal's puppy playgroup. He did make it, though, and is fine today- he and Mal are 13 months old as of today (Leo is two weeks older than Mal but came home the same weekend since his breeder kept him till 10 weeks, fairly standard for pugs.)
Ian Dunbar (I think it's Ian Dunbar, might be someone else) says that puppies should meet 100 new people every week during the critical socialization period, from 8-16 weeks, with care taken during the fear period (9-11 weeks) to make sure they only have positive experiences particularly during that time (and aren't forced to be more social than they are comfortable being- some pups go through a noticable shy stage and others don't, but you CAN really screw up a puppy by forcing them to be petted by people they're scared of or that are overbearing). It's definately a balancing act. But in general, pet supply stores just aren't a good idea- if you MUST go to one, find a mom and pop store (in Dallas, City Pet and Canine Commisary are good, for example) that mops with a parvocide every single night without fail and cleans up accidents with the same. Just soap/wax and deodorizer is NOT good enough to prevent disease transmission.
Thanks for the additional suggestions - I think that socializing Hurleybutt early and often was a really good move, because he's so damn friendly to every single dog and most people he meets now. He's a Kai Ken, so he wants to check people out before he lets them get in his face. Dogs merely require a thourough ass-sniffing.
(Of course, this also means he digs under the fence to go visit the neighbor dogs, but I digress...)
Definately socialization is important, especially with dogs that AREN'T a lab or golden- genetically programmed to love everyone (and it's important for them too!) I have two breeds known to be aloof with strangers- a collie (strangers does not include kids, but no, colllies are not supposed to be lovebugs with everyone) and a corgi (a Cardigan- they're also known for being somewhat aloof compared to their Pembroke relatives) and with my guys, it's VERY important that they ignore strangers and be comfortable with a stranger handling them since it'll be happening in the show ring or in an emergency (Mal is a service dog in training) or even just a kid running up and huggin (Mal has more problems with this than Indy does). It makes a HUGE difference in obedience training- I have a dog tha tstands confidently (and okay, he bounces but it's "ooh, scratch my butt more!" bouncing, not 'eek, don't pet me, I skitter away from you" bouncing) for the stand for exam and for conformation- he's got one leg (with an 99) on his Rally Novice title, achieved before his first birthday and he should finish that title this fall.
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apocalypsos) wrote2007-08-19 02:19 pm
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And what does the vaccination history of other dogs have to do with anything? As long as their dog is vaccinated, what's going to happen?
Petsmart was a great place for our pup to socialize early on, before he was big enough to go to the dog park. I personally think the socialization is well worth any possible risk of some not-entirely cleaned up poo.
no subject
I definately think socialization is VERY important (and I socialize my guys more heavily than pretty much anyone else I know) but petsmart is a HORRIBLE place to do it. It's absolutely NOT better than the dog park.
no subject
Where do you take pups less than 6 months old to socialize, then?
no subject
My puppies go to banks (many local non-chain or small chain banks allow dogs as long as they're polite, and obviously this isn't a 'go in and hang out' it's walk in, drop off my deposit, and go back out, but it's great practice for leash manners and polite public behavior. Blockbuster video is the same deal. :) We spend a lot of time sitting up on the patio area at Sonic, at outdoor cafes where dogs are allowed but rarely present (since most people don't want to spend time corraling their dogs, they're there to socialize!) Basically any place dogs are allowed but that is not a place dogs frequent (and that requires them to be well-behaved- most puppies under 4 months are complient enough (and easy enough to tire out :)) that these places work well for them. We also go to dogs allowed but remote places like the more distant trailheads at the Texas state parks, the less accessible areas of city parks and a couple of local wildlife preserves that have (unpaved) hiking trails that allow leashed dogs. Since the dog park opened, these places have all cracked down on of-leash dogs and most dog owners have quit taking their dogs there since the attraction in the first place was being able to let your dogs run. At four months, Petsmart is FANTASTIC, as is a good dog park- their immune system is good enough to kick any nasties, as long as they've gotten their full shots. Another good option, if you've got friends with dogs and a backyard, is to set up a time when you and your friends with dogs can bring puppies and dogs that are all vaccinated as best as possible and gentle with smaller dogs or puppies to play in a place that you know no unvaccinated dogs have been (IE someone's backyard)
The puppy that I know personally that got parvo from petsmart? Had one round of parvo shots at 7 weeks but no others, his owner didn't think he needed more than one shot. He was 6 months when he got sick and it was nerve wracking, since he's part of Mal's puppy playgroup. He did make it, though, and is fine today- he and Mal are 13 months old as of today (Leo is two weeks older than Mal but came home the same weekend since his breeder kept him till 10 weeks, fairly standard for pugs.)
Oh yeah (more info)
Cait (wearing Dogstar dogtrainer hat)
Re: Oh yeah (more info)
Thanks for the additional suggestions - I think that socializing Hurleybutt early and often was a really good move, because he's so damn friendly to every single dog and most people he meets now. He's a Kai Ken, so he wants to check people out before he lets them get in his face. Dogs merely require a thourough ass-sniffing.
(Of course, this also means he digs under the fence to go visit the neighbor dogs, but I digress...)
Re: Oh yeah (more info)