And now, more fannishment ...

[apocalypsos]

Verdict: Boy, that was just really ludicrously awful, wasn't it?

Let's see ... I don't like the characters (I don't even like Miguel Ferrer and I adore Miguel Ferrer, and while I didn't get to see the entire original pilot where the little sister was deaf and Mae Whitman, I liked what I saw of her a lot more than I do now that she's a bratty computer hacker -- ooo, edgy! -- and a low-rate Rachel Bilson), the episode didn't flow at all as if the scenes were hastily chopped together, and the dialogue made me want to gag. "I'll bury one guy after the next"? Urgh.

And let's not even talk about the little girl saying pretty much directly into the camera, "I just thought it was cool a girl could do that," which offended some part of me so deeply I would have thrown my laptop across the room if it hadn't been, you know, my BABY. I imagine it's supposed to be some sort of thinly veiled feminist statement, but it fails so miserably I can't even comprehend. I mean, really, didn't we all think only boys could run sixty miles per hour?! (That's not what she meant, of course, but considering that was the first reaction that popped into my head, that's not good.)

And there are so very many things about the relationship between Jaime and Will that are skin-crawlingly skeevy I don't even want to think about it.

I just ... ugh. I would think I couldn't possibly hate this show any more than I already do but then I remember the PTB hired Isaiah Washington as if it were some great fucking casting coup and then I realize, no, actually, it COULD get worse.

Verdict: AWESOME. Oh, man, that's a great followup to suffering through The Bionic Woman. Charlie's great, the partner's great (the Woman in White! *squeaks*), and I maybe spazzed out at Alan Arkin (EDIT: ARGH. Meant to type Adam Arkin, typed Alan. I know the difference, I swear. That's what they get for having similar names. Hmph.) being the financial advisor/best buddy, especially during that last scene. "You want to drive the tractor." "You know, I think I kinda do." *snickers*

It inspires great fannish glee in me so I am most definitely torrenting it again next week.

Comments

[poisontaster]

Sorta yes, sorta no. I went and looked it up on Wiki. The person who "gave" the original Jaime Sommers up was Steve Austin, not one of the scientists. He promised her as an agent if they would 'fix' her. And then once they'd done it, he tried to renege on her behalf and she decided to go through with it anyway.

Really, either way, it's kind of skeevy, don't get me wrong. But there are marginal differences like someone who's BEEN through the process volunteering her versus the head scientist dude. The fact that twenty-ish years have past and they should know better now, even if they didn't then. The fact that they COULD have made it either a) more empowering or b) less skeevy and they CHOSE not to. I mean, the original Jaime Sommers was an athlete, a woman with a career and a purpose, etc. The new Jamie is a dropout bartender? I don't know. I don't usually get all "THAT IS ANTI FEMINIST!" but I really feel hit in the face by that one.

[anne-jumps.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I just... I'm not sure what point they're making doing it this way. Are we supposed to think it's fucked up?

[poisontaster]

*hand flaps* I don't know either. The aforementioned sex with skeevy Scientist Boyfriend would seem to bely that. But the truth is, I don't know. I really disliked it, but I'm tempted to watch a second episode just to see if they explore that AT ALL.

[anne-jumps.livejournal.com]

Isn't it sad that in 2007 we can't yet conclusively tell if a major network TV show is meaning for us to think this is fucked up? Stay classy, America! x_x

[partners4life.livejournal.com]

The original Jaime and Steve were childhood sweethearts, there was so much history between them that I think Steve's motives were pure more so than Will in the remake.

Personally as a huge fan of the original Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman, I find most of the "new" BW to be ridiculous plot-wise and filled with bad acting. Lindsay Wagner didn't win a Emmy for her fashion sense after all, there was real emotion to that show (6 Million Dollar Man was more campy).

I knew things were bad when I was rooting for Sarah Corvis to kick Jaime's ass. *g*

[poisontaster]

I used to watch 6M Dollar Man religiously, but I never got into Bionic Woman as much, so I was much sketchier on the details. I was also sort of embarrassingly young. *blushes* But yes, I agree.

I'd be MUCH more into the show if it was Sarah Corvis. *sighs*

[partners4life.livejournal.com]

To show you how much of a young nerd I was: I owned the Jaime Sommers doll.

Jaime was my first girl crush. I watched that show more than $6M Dollar Man, which my brother loved.

I still heart Lindsay Wagner.

The original Jaime was cool, this Jaime is lame.

[budclare.livejournal.com]

The new Jamie is a dropout bartender?

You do realize that you're posting in the lj of a dropout factory worker, right?

I'm prepared to give them the benefit of a doubt and assume that she's going to eventually dump the slightly skeazy guy and just generally start kicking ass (in the non-literal way). (Of course, if the next couple episodes don't manage to hook me, I might not still be around when/if that happens anyway.)

[poisontaster]

I'm a dropout myself. It's not meant to be, per se, a value judgment. I just question why they made the changes that they did, from a professional athlete to a woman who doesn't have very much interior or exterior life.

[budclare.livejournal.com]

Because it entirely changes the dynamic of the show? Because they had a choice between using a character who was relatively extraordinary to begin with and make her even more extraordinary, or make a random ordinary person extraordinary? They gave a (moderate) screw-up superpowers, and this is supposed to be a bad thing? Not that she's all that screwed up anyway. While bartending isn't exactly a great job, it puts food on the table for her and her sister. As a dropout, she could have done a hell of a lot worse, and we don't have the faintest idea what her long-term plans are/were. Presumably she doesn't plan to tend bar for the rest of her life, but it gives her a steady income while she's got a minor to look after. (Also, athletes are boring. *is lazy and biased*)

In spite of the insane amount of exposition that they tried to cram in there, we really don't know a damn thing about her yet. It's a little early to be making assumptions.

*is sick to death of female characters being given way more crap than male characters*

[poisontaster]

It seems to me that you have a preconceived agenda that you're bringing into this conversation. You can like the show if you want to. You can decide that you know my feelings about male characters, however inaccurate your perception may be. You can crucify me for the failings of fandom in regards to women. But that doesn't and won't change my viewpoint. I didn't like the show. I didn't like the MEN in the show and how they treated women. I dislike how the MALE producers chose to depict women in the show. I am sorry that you find my opinion offensive, but I'm not here to salve your conscience about how you think people should feel.

[budclare.livejournal.com]

You can like the show if you want to.

I don't know enough about the show to either like it or dislike it, but it does annoy the hell out of me that you'd assume that based on the fact that I found fault with your arguments. My agenda, if any, is that I'm sick of people assuming that just because they are entitled to dislike a show, that any reasoning they use to justify that belief is automatically valid.

If you say that you dislike a show for reasons X, Y, and Z, that does not automatically mean that all three reasons are valid. Yes, you are more than welcome to dislike the show. And yes, there is probably some validity in your reasons. That does not mean that your reasons are necessarily 100% valid.

Maybe your instincts are right and all of your points will turn out to be valid. Then again, maybe there was one or more scenes that got cut for time that would have made you reconsider reason X. Maybe there's something in the next episode which would make reason Y look a bit dicey. Of course, after another episode or two, you might also have reason A, B, and C to dislike it. And even if all of your original impressions turned out to be wrong, the show might still never be your cup of tea. All of which is FINE. What is less fine is assuming that your impressions based on just the pilot are right.

I'm willing to watch another episode or two before I reach a conclusion. If you don't want to, that's fine. But I am totally justified in pointing out that you're making assumptions. Making assumptions isn't a crime, but it's not unreasonable to expect people to be aware that they're making assumptions.

It's not uncommon for it to take a new show a couple of episodes to really get a handle on their own characters. In my opinion, they can still salvage the show. There's a good chance that they won't. Though, that's really beside the point. Accusing a show of being crappy based on one episode, I can understand. But I do not make accusations of sexism lightly, and this show, while in dicey territory, hasn't yet convinced me that's there's sexism involved. (Why attribute to sexism what can be explained by ineptness?) If she doesn't get her act together, then fine, probably sexism. If she does get her act together, then that's the story. It's not as if people are born strong.

You can decide that you know my feelings about male characters, however inaccurate your perception may be.

What I know is that you expressed confusion at to why in the world they would want to make the character a dropout bartender instead of a professional athlete. Now, if you had said instead that you thought they had dropped the ball on their execution of Jaime-as-an-ordinary-person, that would be a reasonable point. The fact that you acted as if it was a stupid, incomprehensible thing for them to even attempt, that is what bugs me. Disagreeing with the way they went about it is fine, but an apparent inability to even understand what they were trying to do, that is not okay with me.

And yeah, I drew some conclusions about you because of it, which may or may not have been valid (which is not unironic under the circumstances). The reason I drew those particular conclusions is because I can't for the life of me imagine us having this conversation if Jaime were male, but otherwise more or less identical. Would people have questioned the change from athlete to bartender if the character were male? Sure, because fandom question everything (which is not a bad thing in itself). But if a main male character is a loser, nobody makes accusations of sexism. The equivalent female character gets criticized left, right, and center.

Now, maybe in this case the criticism will turn out to be valid, but I'm not remotely convinced that it's clear yet whether or not that's the case.

but I'm not here to salve your conscience about how you think people should feel.

...that sentence doesn't even make sense. Seriously.

[sixersfan.livejournal.com]

But I do not make accusations of sexism lightly, and this show, while in dicey territory, hasn't yet convinced me that's there's sexism involved.
What would it have taken? It seemed pretty blatant to me.

[budclare.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I don't find your opinion offensive. More like vaguely irritating. (Apparently another thing I'm fundamentally sick of is people equating "annoyed" with "offended". Totally different words, my hand to god.)

Just so we're clear, I was irritated because really nothing in the world annoys me as much as a failure to understand. Even when you don't agree with someone, it's usually possible to understand them. In this case, I don't think that it should be mystifying why they chose to make Jaime ordinary, even if you disagree with the decision or the execution. Maybe you just didn't explain yourself very well, but it certainly sounded as if you didn't understand, rather than that you just disagreed.

[poisontaster]

Several times now you have pointed out that you are "sick and tired of people doing x" MY point is that you are making a large assumption about how I conduct myself and making ME pay for the sins of others and how fed up you are about them. I am SO SORRY that you feel "people" pile more on female characters than male. I am SO SORRY that offends you personally. BUT I AM NOT "PEOPLE". I am a singular person and you do not know me well enough to know HOW I normally react to male or female characters and you do not know enough to decide that how I feel about THIS PARTICULAR FEMALE CHARACTER is an endemic flaw.

Do not make me pay for the sins of fandom. And I am not interested in hijacking any more of Jenn's time with this. If you want to rail at me some more, I suggest you take it offline.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Exactly. There's a vast difference between this Jaime Sommers and the previous one. Disregarding their occupations, the original Jaime was more of a person than a series of cliched roles intended to drop her deeper and deeper into a big pool of angst. Was this Jaime happy about anything the entire pilot? At all? She was antagonized by her sister, intimidated by her boyfriend, uncomfortable at the thought of being pregnant, anguished at losing at the baby, pissed about being kept prisoner, anxious and upset about acquiring new abilities, and angry about the Sarah Corvis thing. There's no sense of humor there, no smiles, no occasional sarcasm. And granted, it's still the first episode and not a lot of good things happened to the poor woman, but for Christ's sake, why do I want to see her every week if she's going to mug all the goddamn time?

I mean, look at Lindsay Wagner's Jaime. She was smart, straight-forward, strong, with a great dry sense of humor. I don't get any of that with this Jaime. The most I got was someone else saying she was smart -- smarter than Miguel Ferrer's leader-of-the-team character -- but I saw no evidence in her behavior to show she really was.

[poisontaster]

And personally, if a show can't make a good case for tuning in next week (which BW has NOT) with their pilot...then why do a pilot?

It's the same problem I had with Private Practice. With a season opener, with a pilot...you need to bring your A game. This is a ratings war; what are you doing to win your part of the war? Because shiny special effects are not enough for me personally. I need a character I actually care about. And so far, they haven't really given me one. Probably the closest is Sarah Corvis and she's only a recurring character.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, YES. I mean, let's take the feminism problems out of the equation. The writing itself is awful. The scenes felt hacked together with the use of a chainsaw and a roll of duct tape. There was no subtlety to it, and a hell of a lot of telling rather than showing. The characters never showed any sense of humor at all or said anything that made me do anything other than make a face, making for an uneven balance in the dialogue. Hell, even Lost's pilot episode featured the occasional bit of humor -- even in the worst situations, people still say and do things that provide morbid humor for the audience ... well, except for this show.

And I don't like any of these people. Jaime is always dour. The sister is a brat. The boyfriend is an asshat. The boss is a jerk. Jesus, why do I want to watch these people every week?

It felt a lot like a bad fanfic, and if reading the first chapter of a godawful fanfic is enough to make me avoid the rest of the story at all costs, I'm certainly not going to continue to watch a show that made me mutter, "God, this thing needs a beta," just hoping it gets better. I've already got Life, Pushing Daisies, Journeyman and Chuck added to my watch list. I'm done.

[poisontaster]

And yes, right back atcha. I watch the pilots to see if anything is interesting enough to add to my TV schedule. But if it can't snag me within that window of opportunity...I have lots of other TV to watch and lots of other things I need to be doing with my time than to waste it on something that I only sorta like, or don't really like at all.

I'm so excited about Pushing Daisies! I added all the same shows *g* and that's definitely my favorite of all of them.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

You do realize that you're posting in the lj of a dropout factory worker, right?

True, but I'm not the least bit prepared to be implanted with bionics, either.

For me personally, the changes in Jaime's personal circumstances -- profession, family, etc. -- fail at their intended purposes. I'm guessing I was supposed to get behind Jaime for being an average random person, but I can't. Her greatest enemy is better trained, a professional soldier and possesses more bionics. As a normal person, she's at a ludicrous disadvantage and they haven't inspired me to want to root for her at all.

The original Jaime Sommers, as an athlete, at least had the physical know-how to understand better how her new body works. They can tell me all they want that this new Jaime is, while a dropout bartender, still smarter than everybody in the room, but they've yet to use her actions to convince me of that.

And the situation with her sister doesn't much make me want to side with her, either. At least when the sister was deaf I understood why they had such an uncomfortable relationship. Now she's just some twinkie-cute hacker with a criminal record and if Jaime's too freakin' stupid to figure out Becca's hiding a laptop out the window on the fire escape -- that'd be one of the first places I'd look, Jesus, didn't Jaime ever hide contraband in her room when she was a teenager? -- I don't even want to think about her trying to handle a major international sting operation or whatever.

Plus, the throwaway line about Jaime knowing kung fu because Will put a chip in her brain just ... NO. Show me she's smart and teach it to her.

[budclare.livejournal.com]

Plus, the throwaway line about Jaime knowing kung fu because Will put a chip in her brain just ... NO.

I'm not saying there weren't lame and/or stupid choices made. I just think it's too damn early for people to be claiming that the show commits some kind of crime against feminism. If things don't improve after a couple more episodes, then fine, they're morons. And if some people don't want to stick around long enough to find out for sure, that's fine too. Being uninterested in watching more of the show is one thing; assuming the worst about the show's creators based on one episode is another thing entirely.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I don't know about anybody else, but the only bad thing I'm assuming about the writers is that they're really bad at their jobs, which is less an assumption and more a fact with pretty good basis. I mean, I've already said that I think they meant for this to be a feminist show, which at least means they had good intentions, but by my own judgment I think that based on the pilot they've failed so miserably on that count that they've offended me past the point of wanting to watch anymore. Not only do I have no interest in seeing this character anymore, the way the episode was written makes their views on women look really bad.

On the other hand, the statements the PTB have made about their hiring of Isaiah Washington don't exactly make them look like the most enlightened people on the planet, and those are their own words, not the actions and statements of the fictional characters they write.

[budclare.livejournal.com]

I mean, I've already said that I think they meant for this to be a feminist show, which at least means they had good intentions, but by my own judgment I think that based on the pilot they've failed so miserably on that count that they've offended me past the point of wanting to watch anymore.

But that's assuming that the pilot itself was meant to be feminist, rather than the series overall. She started out fairly lame, but at the end showed some signs of growing a backbone. "Watch a feminist kick ass" and "Watch a doormat become a feminist (and kick ass)" are two totally different shows, but they are both certainly feminist. Whether the shows passes for feminist or not will be determined by her character arc, not just the pilot. They do seem as if they intend to do an empowerment (god, I hate that word) sort of arc, in which case everything is shiny. Except for the part where they could have gotten off to a better start, even taking into consideration that she was (I'm guessing) meant to start out fairly doormatish.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I don't usually get all "THAT IS ANTI FEMINIST!" but I really feel hit in the face by that one.

And the really, REALLY repulsive part is that I got the impression throughout the whole thing -- particularly by the little girl's line -- that it's meant to be very feminist.

[poisontaster]

Again, yes. I really got the impression that the writer (who IS female) and the producers thought that this would be REALLY EMPOWERING for women.