Okay, here goes nothing. *cracks knuckles*

[apocalypsos]

This may get a little long-winded. Mostly because I can't go to bed with this much bleakness rattling around in my head.

We occupy a fandom in which we actually have honest-to-goodness serious debates about whether the lead characters on our show are even going to survive the finale. That the human race might live through the finale because Sam and Dean die to save it is a genuine possibility. And we may wish and hope and pray for a happy ending, but there's not a one of us who would be surprised if we end up being handed a bittersweet or even outright depressing end when the finale comes.

We're a fandom who will count it as a miracle if we even get to keep the Winchesters when all is said and done. Anybody else left alive is cake.

I fear on some level that the oncoming wank -- and you know there will be wank; we wank more before breakfast than most fandoms do all day -- is going to be a debate of quantity versus quality. Is the fact that there are two more dead female characters on the show's tally lessened or negated by the equally undeniable fact that they both went out in character-appropriate and awesome deaths that more female characters on this show should get? God, I hope so.

That was one of the most gripping, emotional scenes this show's ever given us. It was two female characters saying, "You know what? If I'm going down, I'm going down swinging and taking as many fuckers with me as possible." That was a strong death, damn it, and if Ellen and Jo had to go down -- and they did, like it or not; we're at a point in the mythology where if anybody, even the boys, make it out of this alive it'll be a fucking miracle -- they went down with their fists raised and their middle fingers up.

Godspeed, ladies. It's too bad you couldn't hang with us longer.

(Especially considering that Alona Tal had more chemistry with Misha in a handful of scenes in one episode than Jensen ever did in the few seasons since he met her. Sorry, Jensen, but "I think I'm starting to feel something" was the start of something wonderful. Almost. *pouts*)

*

So ... Lucifer let out Death, huh?

You mean, the angel of Death?

As in, Michael?

'Cause really, that would explain a LOT. Like why Sam's getting expensive gift baskets snarky speeches from Lucifer and Dean's getting forced appointments with Zachariah in the Gilded Cheeseburger Room.

And it would be HELLA interesting when paired with my neverending theory that either Michael is already in Dean or that Dean's going to say yes to Michael first and Sam's going to say yes to Lucifer to bring down his brother, rather than the other way around.

EDIT: For the record, I am probably wrong. It's one of MY theories. How often are my theories EVER right? Heh.

I just really want Michael to stick his sorry head out of the woodwork. Or, you know, for somebody on this show to just admit Michael's already on Dean. Now, THAT'S the theory I like best. :D

*

For the record, I love that Lucifer's going to take down the demons while he's at it. Of course he is. Heh.

Comments

[strippedpink.livejournal.com]

t was two female characters saying, "You know what? If I'm going down, I'm going down swinging and taking as many fuckers with me as possible." That was a strong death, damn it, and if Ellen and Jo had to go down -- and they did, like it or not; we're at a point in the mythology where if anybody, even the boys, make it out of this alive it'll be a fucking miracle -- they went down with their fists raised and their middle fingers up.

Yes. YES YES! I was trying to say exactly that in my review, but couldn't quite find the words...and hell. That scene with Ellen and Jo is what I've ALWAYS WANTED between Sam and Dean at the end of the series. The love, the trust, the tragedy and poignancy...I'm actually really amazed -- by Alona and Samantha -- and proud that SPN gave that to them.

Because that? Was a scene worthy of the two male leads of this show. And they gave it to the WOMEN. THE END.

[tigriswolf]

But isn't Azrael the angel of death?

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

See, I'm going off of this (from Wikipedia):

In the Roman Catholic Church, Saint Michael has four main roles or offices.[31] He is the Christian angel of death, carrying the souls of all the deceased to heaven, where they are weighed in his perfectly balanced scales (hence Michael is often depicted holding scales).

I'm probably wrong. But still.

[lavenderfrost.livejournal.com]

Azrael is the GOOD Angel of Death, Sammael is the BAD one.

[seimaisin.livejournal.com]

I cannot fault the writers for anything that happened in this episode, story-wise. In fact, it might be one of the best written episodes of SPN ever, in all five seasons. That's how you escalate things without suddenly deus ex machina-ing all over the place!

On a gut level, though, I don't think I realized how much of my feelings about gender and SPN were soothed by thinking "well, Ellen and Jo are out there kicking ass, so it's okay" until they were gone. Sigh.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

I am really raw from this episode and still on the cusp of still crying.

But anyway. Samael is the angel of death. Micheal is the sword of god.

I love that even in extremis I can still be a pedantic asshole. [!]

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Heh. See, I hit Wikipedia just now and got this out of the Michael entry:

In the Roman Catholic Church, Saint Michael has four main roles or offices.[31] He is the Christian angel of death, carrying the souls of all the deceased to heaven, where they are weighed in his perfectly balanced scales (hence Michael is often depicted holding scales).

I'm probably wrong, but it WOULD explain where the hell Michael is.

(Hey, if nothing else, there's fic! :D)

[elizardbits.livejournal.com]

Yeah, assuming the show is going with the Jewish version of things. WE DON'T RULE THE UNIVERSE YET, KASSIE. So what about Angra Mainyu or Azrael or Sariel or Malakh al-Maut or Ghede or the Morrigan or that egyptian dude with the jackal head?

Basically I am kind of crunked on NyQuil and will totally argue comparative religion until I pass out dribbling.

[soundingsea.livejournal.com]

I think Lucifer let out Death The Horseman. You know, "on a pale horse".

While they did go out strong, I just don't want them to be DEAD. *cri*

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

True, although it would be a neat twist, wouldn't it? ;)

I don't want them to be dead either, but I'll take it for an ending that strong and mourn appropriately.

so micheal is the angel of death...

[catdancerz.livejournal.com]

and sam might let in lucifer to stop him...hm....interesting....i never thought of that...

Re: so micheal is the angel of death...

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

It depends. As other people have pointed out, it could be Samael he raised, it could be Azrael or Michael, it could be regular old Death on a horse, and in my wildest fandom-swapping dreams, it'll be Peter Wingfield with blue paint on his face. Heh. :)

There's a handful of different ways they could go with the "Lucifer raised Death" business. It just seems like a hop, skip and a jump to Michael considering he's gotten heavy mentions this season, is an angel of Death at least in some religious arenas, and hasn't shown up yet. It's probably simply Death in the same way that we ended up having War earlier in the season, but I kinda hope not.

Of course there will be wank...

[telaryn.livejournal.com]

And I don't care. Ellen Harvelle is my favorite character probably in the history of ever, and I still wouldn't have changed a note of tonight's story.

And Jo...JO! One of the most, if not *the* most controversial and wank-inducing character of the entire series run, and she gets her self-respect in the end and a gold star of bad-assery.

Even though I cried, I'm more than content. Their deaths were worthy of them *and* my tears.

[bookesque.livejournal.com]

I'm more bugged by the fact that Crowley is a snarky British demon with good(ish) intentions who works in sales. Kripke owes Pratchett and Gaiman a whole lot of cash and banana daiquiris. Seriously, the four horsemen in color-coded cars, a kid who has no idea he's the Antichrist, and now a demon named Crowley who lives on Earth and not so much fell as sauntered vaguely downwards? At some point, it stops being a shout-out and starts being a rip-off.

[frogmajick.livejournal.com]

Thank you. Yes. This.

[killerweasel.livejournal.com]

Is the Angel of Death and Death the Horseman the same thing?

Anyways, that's two out of four horsemen on the loose, which means th other two need to be out before the end of the world, right?

[kimberlyfdr.livejournal.com]

Michael's the "good" angel of death, though. To raise this one, I would think it would be the representation of the "bad" angel of death (aka Samael) since he's the fallen angel on par with Satan himself.

Also, the apocalypse is depressing :(

[alexseanchai]

Why the hell would Lucifer release Michael? Lucifer hates Michael. Or loves-and-hates and doesn't wanna meet him down a dark alley. It's Azrael or the Fourth (Fifth? Revelation is not with the sense-making) Horseman.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I don't know. That's where my theory get iffy. It's probably not right, but it was the first thing that popped into my head and it made me think really cool thoughts.

[angelwatcher17.livejournal.com]

just....this!!!

Gabriel was the Angel of Death. Not Michael.

[seferin.livejournal.com]

To be fair, most of the Angels aren't listed in the Torah, but I find it interesting that an Archangel needs to summon anyone. You'd think they would be right below God, but if they need to do anything other than yell "Get over here", one wonders about relative power levels

Re: Gabriel was the Angel of Death. Not Michael.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Okay, we're now up to five viable candidates for the Angel of Death. God, I love this religion sometimes. :D

[ulkis.livejournal.com]

I thought Jo and Ellen's deaths were kind of a cop-out not because they were women, but because they haven't been on the show for two years. But it WAS an excellent send-off.

Dean's going to say yes to Michael first and Sam's going to say yes to Lucifer to bring down his brother, rather than the other way around

I like that theory, but Sam would need a reason why Lucifer winning over Michael would be preferable. I get that Michael would be killing people, but wouldn't Lucifer kill everyone anyway after he got rid of Michael?

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I get that Michael would be killing people, but wouldn't Lucifer kill everyone anyway after he got rid of Michael?

See, this is why I'm not writing this fic right now. Because I kept running into mental walls like this one and my creative bits have already gone to bed for the night. ;)

Seriously, I feel like I'm thiiiiiis close to writing that whole theory as fic, but it would be so problematic to get JUST right.

[svilleficrecs.livejournal.com]

I missed a few seasons, so I don't know much about these ladies besides that they are hot, but these ladies getting Castiel drunk and maybe taking advantage of him. Either. Or Both.

But I just... really like the idea of them both being like "Ooo, angel. Let's see if we can get him drunk!"

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I want to see an alternate-universe of this show where Ellen and Jo take in Castiel after (as much as I love them) Sam and Dean get offed during the apocalypse, and in between fighting demons and killing monsters they both takes turns getting him wasted and relieving him of his discomfort around women by fucking him stupid.

.

.

.

... okay, I'm back. *happy sighs*

[ilovesn.livejournal.com]

*laughs*

I love the way you think and yes, Jo & Ellen had to go but damn, they went with everything they had in them and fought till the fucking end.

[lavenderfrost.livejournal.com]

You mean, the angel of Death?

As in, Michael?

Dude. Sammael.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael

EVIL angel of Death in the Talmud? Come on, dude - guardian of Esau, Patron of Rome, fallen angel pretty much equal in rank to Lucifer himself? Fuck yeah. :D

Also, that's about the only theory I can muster right now, because HOLY SHIT. I literally sat there dumbstruck for about 5 minutes after the ep ended, holyfuckingcrapgoddamnyouKripke!

[lavenderfrost.livejournal.com]

LOL @ your entry having no comments when I started typing this, and like, 30 by the time I get it posted, most saying pretty much the same thing. Fandom's sharing brain cells again tonight. lol

[cityphonelines.livejournal.com]

Here via a pimp on my flist

they went down with their fists raised and their middle fingers up.

YES. That's exactly how it felt. These were two characters that I greatly cared about and I feel they died warriors deaths and with dignity and bravery and I AM SAD BUT SATISFIED.

[minim_calibre]

That was one of the most gripping, emotional scenes this show's ever given us. It was two female characters saying, "You know what? If I'm going down, I'm going down swinging and taking as many fuckers with me as possible." That was a strong death, damn it, and if Ellen and Jo had to go down -- and they did, like it or not; we're at a point in the mythology where if anybody, even the boys, make it out of this alive it'll be a fucking miracle -- they went down with their fists raised and their middle fingers up.

Yes to this. And amen!

[wenchamok.livejournal.com]

And I will pay good money and my firstborn child to have Michael be played by Peter Wingfield. 'Cause I'm sure I wasn't the only one with "I was Death...Death on a horse..." bouncing around my head during that ep....

[gypsy-atavari.livejournal.com]

Word on everything you said. I'm still reeling. I know I need to see the ep again cuz I missed a lot first time viewing but I may not be ready yet - still feel so raw - I wasn't expecting to cry.