The morning after ...

[apocalypsos]

Okay, here's my thing with the whole Kurt/Finn thing. It kind of boils down to four bullet points.

1. Kurt's crush on Finn was understandable up to the point where it started going overboard.
2. The writing and acting when it comes to Kurt's crush on Finn has been really problematic at times.
3. I don't consider what Kurt did to be sexual harrassment.
4. No matter what line Kurt may have crossed, he never EVER reached a point where he deserved for Finn to start repeatedly yelling the word "fag."

First off, the crush.

There's nothing wrong with Kurt having a crush on Finn. There's nothing wrong with his hoping that maybe, just maybe, Finn might be bi and possibly hasn't even considered it yet. I mean, hell, we write fic like that ALL the time.

And up to a point, there was nothing wrong with Kurt's crush. Where Kurt started to cross a line was in introducing his dad to Finn's mom. If he has a crush on Finn, there's nothing wrong with that either. But attempting to arrange it so that you'll have to share a room with your crush, whether you meant it to be that way or not, is going too far. It's the sort of awkward teenage behavior most people look back on in their own lives and go, "Shit, why did I DO that?", and Kurt's going to be the same way.

Secondly, the writing and performance.

I love Chris Colfer, I do, but the thing about Chris is that when he plays upset and grimaces and gets all uptight -- like he does when Finn says something that upset's Kurt's hope that Finn might show some interest in him -- he makes the same face all the time and there's something really unsettling about it. Chris has a really expressive face and in my opinion it takes what's a normal crush gone a smidge too far and makes it a little more uncomfortable to watch than need be.

As for the writing ... okay, I honestly believe that at this point in the storyline, the writers intend for Kurt to possibly still have a crush on Finn, but at least be somewhat realistic about it. He's gone from being more flirtatious like he was in earlier private moments with Finn -- helping him with that one song a way back comes to mind, where he was trying to backseat-drive Finn's love life towards experimenting with guys -- to attempting to make him happy about the sharing-a-room situation. I think that Kurt's at a point where he still has a crush on Finn, but he's trying to be a realist about it for the obvious fact that his dad's happy with Finn's mom. At no time last night did he appear to be inappropriate with Finn, unless you count the mere fact that they had to move in together, which was the result of earlier questionable behavior, not any that happened last night.

Third, the sexual harassment bit.

Kurt's crush on Finn isn't creepy because he's gay.

I repeat, KURT'S CRUSH ON FINN ISN'T CREEPY BECAUSE HE'S GAY.

Where the crush becomes creepy is in manipulating a situation so that you and your crush can share a bedroom. It should be creepy if a woman does it as well. You're attempting to invade your crush's private space. That's out of line.

That said, I feel like the accusations of sexual harassment go too far in this case.

Do I think what Kurt initially did was wrong? Yes. Do I think he was, as of last night's episode, thinking of sneaking up on Finn at night and sticking his hand down his pants? Oh, hell, no. They moved in together and Kurt's biggest crime was redecorating badly. (I thought it was rather nice, but then again I'm not a 16-year-old straight boy.) If the worse crime he's committing is arranging for the situation in the first place, that's not sexual harassment, that's just being stupid. Teenagers are really good at that.

Meanwhile, Finn was flinching away from Kurt and changed in the bathroom. That's not right, either. Finn realizing Kurt has a crush on him may be the sharpest he's ever been on this show. That still doesn't give him the right to act as though Kurt is going to pounce on him like a jungle cat every time he comes near him. Kurt spent the entire episode trying to make the best of the situation, albeit awkwardly. Finn spent the entire episode having a freakout that his new gay roommate would see him naked or touch him. Kurt may have behaved inappropriately by arranging for them to share a bedroom -- something he seems (at least to me) to regret having done on some level -- but Finn was the one who started crossing lines and didn't stop the second they started sharing a bedroom.

And as for the last bullet point?

Nothing would have made it appropriate for Finn to have called Kurt a fag. NOTHING. It wouldn't have been appropriate even if Kurt had tried to give him a blowjob without his consent, it wouldn't have been appropriate even if Kurt has tried to kiss him, it wouldn't have been appropriate even if Kurt has spent every night they shared a bedroom flirting heavily with him. Burt may have missed out on Kurt's crush on Finn, but everything he said about Finn saying that word was on point.

It's completely unforgivable for me, and I almost want to congratulate Glee. I used to like Finn, at least in some small part. And I know he's a teenage boy and they say this shit, but ... that's it. I'm done with him.

Comments

[shei.livejournal.com]

THIS! I have nothing else.

[svilleficrecs.livejournal.com]

I agree with all this (having not seen the ep yet, but having read a few reaction posts) and my only quibble is about the hand-down-pants bit. Kurt hasn't done that yet, and we the audience are fairly sure he wouldn't, but Finn's got no way of knowing Kurt wouldn't. And considering all the deliberately-tone-deaf-to-signals and boundary ignoring stuff Kurt's doing so far, it's not unreasonable for Finn to think Kurt could be capable of that. I think the fact that Kurt is so much less physically imposing makes it easier to dismiss that prospect, but Finn's got a history of sexual betrayal (what happened w/ Quinn and Puck didn't happen to his body, but it was two people he cared about betraying his trust about sex) which I think is going to make him extra sensitive about people being sneaky/creepy/ignoring his obvious wishes when it comes to sex.

Not that that excuses whatever freak out he had, but if I were in his position, I'd have no reason to believe Kurt would know to draw the line at hand-down-pants. He didn't know to draw the line at upending both their and their parents' lives.

[sizequeen.livejournal.com]

It should go without saying that Kurt did not deserve to be called faggy, but I do think that Kurt's behavior toward Finn has been increasingly creepy, insensitive, and imo, has been sexually harassing. We might have different definitions of the latter, but if someone keeps making insiunationg comments and making me uncomfortable in a sexual way, then to me that's harassment.

I think we all need to keep in mind that Finn is 16 years old and the approbation of his peers is extremely important to a kid his age. He has had ZERO poblems with Kurt's gayness or his crush, but in the last several eps two things have occurred: the insane move in and the increase in bullying at school. That's a lot for a kid to take, and Finn crumpled under pressure and lashed out horribly.

Keep in mind that he's *16.*

Also, Finn has been recently sexually humiliated by Puck and Quinn, he's lost the stability of his widowed mom's devotion to his dead father, and he has lost his macho reputation to Glee Club. That's a lot of destabilizing in the last few months. He must feel the need to reassert his het masculine himself.

Also, Kurt's crush has been over the top for a while now. I'm trying to imagine living in the same room with someone, male or female, who made creepy Freudian slips about our relationship and kept ogling me. If my lesbian roommate had a crush on me, it might be uncomfortable, but it would not be a threat. There simply isn't the same level of enmity toward lesbians or girls who "experiment", but as a straight guy in the culture, Finn is trained to protectvely maintain his masculine self-image.

Keep in mind that he's *16.*


And Kurt who is usually pretty savvy, just kept pushing* without ever even trying to understand Finn's perspective. Kurt, as the victim of bullying, should understand that Finn is now a victim of homophobic bullying as well. Kurt cannot change their living arrangements, but his lack of understanding of Finn's situation was surprising.

I missed the last 10 minutes of the show, but I hoped that Kurt would go to his father and admit that he'd had some pretty ridiculous plans about Finn moving in with them. Kurt, of all people, knows that Finn is normally a decent guy. In fact, Finn is unusally sweet-natured for a teenaged boy, and he's always been totally neutral about Kurt's sexuality. I think Kurt needs to take some responsibility for that fight.

[kerri]

He has had ZERO poblems with Kurt's gayness or his crush,

I'm going to have to disagree with this point. People who have 'zero problems' with someone being gay just would not come out with the word 'faggy'. I think that Finn knew that it was wrong and that's why he had the knee-jerk reaction that he did when Kurt's dad walked in, but he's been steeped in homophobia and he has some growing up to do before he gets over his own discomfort.

[sizequeen.livejournal.com]

Okay. point. He had ZERO external problems with Kurt's homosexuality. In fact, they seemed to be developing a friendship.

[poisontaster]

I think Finn has reasons for behaving as he did. I don't think he has anything that stands up as an excuse for his behavior. And I feel like your comment overlooks the fact that Kurt is ALSO *16* and, as a gay kid in high school, one of the biggest pressure cookers for conformity there is, he has significantly less of a template for how to act on/with a crush. As a straight, shy kid, I might have worried about getting laughed at and mocked for liking/wanting someone out of my league or otherwise uninterested, but I never had to worried I'd be nailed to a fence for it.

[wrenlet.livejournal.com]

as a straight guy in the culture, Finn is trained to protectvely maintain his masculine self-image.

... and this is a PROBLEM, and is exactly what Kurt's dad called him out on. Finn being subjected to bullying by the football team is also a cultural PROBLEM, and it is not on Kurt to somehow "protect" him from that. (By what, never expressing an interest in a boy because the boy might then be bullied?)

Glee fails on a lot of issues -- hell, it fails on this one a lot of the time -- but so far the writers have been consistent in having Burt call out the things that are broken in how society treats homosexuals, especially homosexual teenagers, and refuse to perpetuate that brokenness. "Gay panic" is bullshit defense for anything, ever.

[sizequeen.livejournal.com]

I think you all are making great points, but while the language Finn used was morally wrong, I think he was partly justified in his anger. I do not understand why the writers/show are acting as if Kurt's behavior wasn't also, though less, offensive.

Glee is a dumb show, but it had a moment to say something more complicated than a fourth iteration of "Burt loves his live gay son."

We got that gay slurs were absolutely unacceptable, but being manipulative and stalkery towards someone who has expressed no interest in you is somehow okay. Kurt can express interest in boys, but he has gone far beyond interest. Kurt does not have to defend Finn, but he he seems oblivious to Finn's anxiety.

Finn made a mistake, took his lumps, and offered a sincere, remorseful apology. Someone needs to offer Kurt some kind of wake-up call on this ridiculous crush.

[rani23.livejournal.com]

THIS!

[poisontaster]

Yes. This.

[cirakaite.livejournal.com]

I agree. I would *also* like to point out that it's very unlikely that two parents moving in together would ever have put their (unrelated) sixteen year old son and daughter in the same room for those very reasons: even given that Kurt is unlikely to pounce, sharing a room with someone who's sexually attracted to you in a way you do not reciprocate is *uncomfortable*.

Word on the inappropriate reaction, though. I *loved* Burt's defense of his son, and calling Finn out. It was awesome. Uncomfortable does not equate to omg he's going to rape me while I sleep because he'd a FAG.

[writerrising.livejournal.com]

I was also thinking that this was something mishandled by the parents. You don't put unrelated sons and daughters in the same room partially for sexual reasons. Kurt and Finn are both males, but with Kurt being sexually attracted to males I think it would have been more appropriate and realistic not to move them into the same room. Plus, Finn was not consulted in this move. I wouldn't want to all the sudden be told I have to share a room with somebody I've never even lived in the same house as. It's a privacy issue.

[sabra-n.livejournal.com]

Seriously, what kind of house has two and half baths and only two bedrooms? One of which seems to be in the basement?

[writerrising.livejournal.com]

Could just be a modest house. But it wouldn't have been that hard for a handy man like Kurt's dad to slap up a floating wall in the basement so the guys could have some privacy.

[writerrising.livejournal.com]

While Finn had absolutely no right to use that word, they way they told Finn about the move was just wrong. Not only was he not consulted, it was sprung on him when the idea should have been a one on one conversation with his mom before it became a conversation with Burt or Kurt, or an announcement.

And I found Kurt manipulative, pushy, and creepy, especially in that first scene. Yes, Finn had no right to freak out and use that term towards Kurt, but he is a 16 year old small town boy who has had a lot of life changes sprung on him very suddenly. However, he did need to be told his behavior was totally out of line.

Kurt needs a bit of a reality check too though. He's been trying to manipulate this from the beginning, swinging between glee and bitterness depending on which way things are going. You shouldn't try to manipulate peoples lives like that. He's also in a very tough confusing space in life, but he also has lessons to learn and growing up to do.

[writerrising.livejournal.com]

ETA: Finn flinching away is bad behavior, yes, but I wouldn't want to change in front of my step-brother even though I'm sure he wouldn't try to attack me. Finn does have the right to choose who he changes/is naked in front of regardless of why.

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

YES. THIS. All of it, to what you said. Except for not being able to forgive Finn. But other than that one point (which is just a matter of opinion) GOD YES to everything you said. Next time somebody says Kurt deserved it I'm pointing them here.

[hellziggy.livejournal.com]

No, in no way was it appropriate for Finn to call Kurt a fag. But it felt like a believable reaction.

He's a 16 yr old virgin who was naive enough to believe he got his girlfriend pregnant in a hot tub only to later find that his best friend was the father. He's getting taunted daily by the football players that used to be his friends about now being gay. Kurt is most likely the only out gay person he's ever met. He hasn't even been lifelong friends with Kurt. They pretty much led separate lives until Finn was blackmailed/forced to join the Glee club.

Then you throw in the fact that he idolizes the dead father he never knew. Now his mom is seriously dating for the first time. While enjoying the new father figure in his life that he's never had, he also feels guilty out of loyalty to his own dead father.
If that wasn't enough stress on him, now he finds out he's going to be moving in with his mom's new boyfriend and her kid. He's not even told this by mom, he's essentially ambushed by mom, new father figure, and new father figure's child.

But that's not stressful enough. Lets spring this change on him and then tell him he will be sleeping in the same room as the kid who has an unreciprocated crush on him.

I really hated that Finn reacted the way he did. I thought he was above things like that. But when I look at it all in perspective, I don't think he could have reacted differently, except maybe to refrain from using the word fag. But when you are upset you also don't always think about the words you are using. I know that when I've had bad fights with my husband I have called him an asshole. It's not right, he's not an asshole. It's not what I believe. But at that point my rational mind is not also thinking about every word before it comes out. When you are frustrated and hurt sometimes the reaction is to make sure the other person is as hurt as you.

Kurt's dad's reaction to what Finn said was awesome. Every kid should have a parent who will be there for you like that. His reaction was exactly right.

But. WTF was he thinking putting his girlfriend's son in the same room as his gay son?!?! If Finn was a girl and Kurt was straight them sharing a bedroom would never even have been considered. In my opinion, once you know your 16 yr old son is gay, to have him share a bedroom with an unrelated 16 yr old male is the same thing as having your straight 16 yr old son share a room with an unrelated 16 yr old girl.

[baileytc.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Finn's reaction was not acceptable but it was understandable.

As for the idea that Finn feeling uncomfortable dressing/undressing in the shared room is "not right": I'll argue that it's also not right to tell Finn what he can and can't be uncomfortable about; how he can express that discomfort is another question. And I think in this instance that his discomfort is justified: How many people would be comfortable dressing/undressing in a room with a person who has expressed strong, unrequited interest in them sexually, has manipulated the situation to ensure alone time with them, and doesn't seem to get the signals that they're not interested, regardless of whether that person is gay or straight? Changing in the bathroom is an acceptable way of expressing that discomfort. Using homophobic slurs is not.

Props to Cory Monteith for his acting while Bert reads Finn the riot act. The look of horror and devastation on Finn's face as someone he likes and respects tells him that his behavior is unacceptable and makes him feel lower than dirt was absolutely spot on.

[beanarie.livejournal.com]

For anyone who thought Finn was justified, I ask you, when Mercedes busted up Kurt's car, would it have been okay for him to use the N-word? Hmmmm.

[escritoireazul.livejournal.com]

While I agree that Finn's use of fag was inexcusable, I think Burt's response was out of line and that Kurt was heading into sexual harassment territory if he wasn't already there.

This post talks about it better than I could.