(no subject)

[apocalypsos]

Okay, look. I'd try to soften this down, but ... well, I'm not feeling very coherent about this subject right now. Just keep in mind that I love you all lots before I start, all right? *gives you a good cuddle for prep, 'cause you'll need it*

After Ana-Lucia appeared, everybody went all nuts like, "God, she's such a horrible bitch! She keeps beating up Sawyer! She's all tough and horrible! And look, she just shot Shannon! I don't even like Shannon, but what an awful character!" And there a few of us were, sitting off to the side saying, "Dude, what do you expect? If they dropped any more clues that these people have had it waaaaay worse than the Lostaways, we'd be waist deep in clue anvils."

I mean, it's not like I don't get why people wouldn't like her. I imagine that by Day 48, I'd want to kill her, too, if I were a Tailaway. You know, when I wasn't grateful at her for trying to save our collective asses.

Do I sound bitter? Well, okay, yeah, I feel a little bitter. It's been tough liking Ana-Lucia since she was introduced, because the majority of Lost fans think she's a stone-cold bitch just for the fun of it. Or at least that's the impression I've gotten from a lot of people I've seen. I can't remember one person saying before this week, "Well, I realize the Tailaways have been through a lot, and have had it ten times worse, and nearly all of them have died or been abducted by the Others, but why does she have to be so mean?

And let's not even start discussing why it's completely terrible for her to hit Sawyer, but I haven't seen one person call Mr. Eko on whacking all three of our guys over the heads with a tree branch bigger than both of my wrists put together. So he can hit the Lostaways but she can't because it makes her a bitch. (It's the same reason I got pissed when Sawyer got lauded by fans for acting like an asshole, but the same behavior got Shannon dumped into the "most hated character" bin a lot. This fandom will tear female characters to shreds for the same shit the male characters can pull off, and while the female characters on this show are not written as well as they should be a lot of time ... bitch, please. I have a lot of problems with the show itself, but that's the one thing I truly dislike about Lost fandom. The double standards in this fandom piss me right the hell off.)

Also, she's hit Sawyer and next week she's going after Sayid. Yes, it's awful. Whyever would she hit the very, very pretty big men who come at her or threaten her?

Oh, and God forbid they should leave Sawyer behind when he passes out. It's a perfectly good idea to carry along dead weight when people are in the jungle chasing and trying to KILL YOU.

Again ... bitter? Moi?

Yes, I am. I'm loads bitter. I'm sorry, but ... yeah.

(In a Katred tangent, I can't believe we've been off watching Kate bat her eyelashes at anything in boxers and cry over a toy airplane when we could have been watching Ana-Lucia. It would just be me and three or four other people who don't completely hate her watching THAT show, but still.)

Like I said, I understand where people are coming from, I do. And I'm not trying to start a fight. People like whom they want to like, and I understand that the same way I manage to wrap my brain around the fact that there are people who like Kate. I think she's a vast pile of suck, but to each his own. It's not the dislike that bugs me (okay, it is a little of the dislike, because this is honestly the closest on the island we've gotten to a Sarah Connor replica, with the exception of Danielle, who's only three or four hot showers away from being pretty much a Sarah clone with a French accent), it's the dislike about why she's being a bitch. Because ... hello? *points* That's why she's a bitch.

Look, I have respect for not liking Ana-Lucia. Don't like her. I'm not asking anybody to. But after tonight, I just don't get how anyone cannot understand how she got to the point that she's at when she shoots Shannon. I'm just asking people to understand where she's coming from when she hits Sawyer's injured shoulder and bosses everybody around. As far as the Tailaways can tell, until they can see better proof, Jin, Michael and Sawyer are all members of the Others or at the very least under suspicion. (For God's sake, Sawyer has a gunshot wound and Jin is wearing a handcuff -- would YOU trust them?) Compared to what the Tailaways have gone through, the Lostaways have been having a fucking picnic. All those arguments I made last season about how they needed to train more people to fish and hunt and maybe build some shelters seem stupid now, because the Tailaways have had it a million times worse.

They haven't been off getting laid and eating fake peanut butter and kissing Sawyer and playing golf. They've been dying, for Christ's sake. They've been hunted.

And of course the Others would start with the infiltration of the Tailaways. There are fewer of them, and it's easier to take a little over twenty than it is to take down nearly fifty. Goodwin's words -- "They were good people" -- are pretty frightening, too. That could go two ways -- they're either good people in general (which would explain on the other side of the island why only Claire and Walt have been abducted so far -- she has no real deep dark secrets unless you count the adoption, and Walt is just a child, bratty though he can be at times) or that they're good FOR something. He said that thing about the guys that they took the first night being big guys, strong guys, and maybe that's why they were taken. I'm not sure if I believe that, since Nathan wasn't abducted and he looked pretty healthy to me.

I'm leaning more towards it being a combination of both. And here's the thing that gets me about Walt and Claire's disappearances. Claire came back after her abduction with no memory of where she had been or anything after the crash. And Walt (who Harold Perrineau has said in an interview somewhere definitely has powers) has been appearing at least to Shannon, and presumably that last time to Sayid. (I've seen people say it was a dream and Sayid faked seeing him to pacify Shannon, which ... yeah, safe to say I don't believe that.) So let's look at the progression:

-- You get taken by the Others.
-- They do something to you, and you forget everything after you get to the island. (And possibly from before the island, and your long-term memory comes back first after a separation.)
-- You stay with the Others and don't willingly leave anytime soon. (It certainly appears that way, since both Goodwin and Ethan seemed to have spent a lot of time on that island beforehand.)

I'm not sure anymore of this preternaturally strong stuff about Ethan, since I'm starting to think it would have been an easier explanation for more of the Others to just hide in the jungle and help him carry Charlie and Claire away. Not that I don't think he was at his physical peak -- say what you will about the Others and their state of mind, but their bodies appear to be in perfect condition. You know, aside from the hygiene.

I don't think Claire escaped anymore so much as she made a wrong turn away from her "new tribe" (if you want to put it that way) and ended up running right into the Lostaways again. Maybe it's some sort of shot they give you to forget, or something else ... I don't know. But I think that as long as you're with them for the first part of the transition, whatever the transition is, you don't even remember there ARE other people on the island, just this new "family" of yours. After a while, it's ingrained in you, and you become like Goodwin and Ethan -- all gung-ho about the joy of being with the Others like joining a strangely successful cult.

Going back to Walt, I think if that theory were correct, he's still in the middle of the transition phase, whatever it is. And while I'm not sure that he's doing it consciously or not (he's never overtly made anything happen on his own, like forcing something to happen and knowing he was doing it, so I think he may be succumbing), I do believe that he's broadcasting these signals to the Lostaways to try and help them. He's only got one connection to the Lostaways through Vincent, and through Vincent, he can get to Shannon, like a game of Hot Potato. This is what makes me think part of him is doing this on purpose, because if he were going for the closest link to him subconsciously, he'd go through Michael, who as far as he knows is still out in the middle of the ocean and hasn't been seeing him.

Is it a stretch? Well, yeah, but that's what half of theorizing about this shit involves, right? ;)

In happier news ... BERNARD!!! I love him. Let's make Bernard and Rose the show mascots. Rose can be all maternal and sweet and Bernard can trail after her like a lovesick puppy and I will LOVE IT ALL HARDCORE. I need to write Bernard/Rose fanfic yesterday. I just need to catch up on everything we know about them so far. (The only time I have ever slightly not liked Yunjin Kim was in a recent interview -- I think with E!'s Kristin -- where she said that the fans really want Sun and Jin to reunite because they're the only married couple on the island, and I love those crazy kids, but NONONO. BERNARD/ROSE!!! Squee! Also, I wanted to punch one of the local morning DJs in the face the morning after "Everybody Loves Hugo" because He Who Claims To Be A HUUUUGE Lost Fan said on the radio that Rose had never been on the show before and "now the castaways have a black woman washing their laundry." Catch up, fucker, and stop being so freakin' stupid. GRRR.)

Comments

[dorei.livejournal.com]

i like her just fine.

I think the reason why people were forgiving of Sawyer was we saw early on that he had "issues" making him the way he was. Not to mention he was much more in-your-face about wanting to be a "non-team player." Shannon was just whiny, and Ana-Lucia, while, as I said, I like her just fine, I was glad to finally see her have more than one expression on her face when she had her little cry fest at the streambed.

[foxxcub.livejournal.com]

While I still detest the living shit out of Ana Lucia's initial introduction scene with Jack in "Exodus" (BAD writing, BAAAAD), I have to agree with you on all of it. And yes, there IS a double standard in the fandom--lest we forget that Charlie was quickly forgiven for what can only be called a cold-blooded revenge killing, and yet AL is stoned to death for shooting someone in paniced self-defense. She's not my favorite by a long shot, but I do like her. She's a survivalist and has had the crap scarec out of her for days on end; she'll definitely bring an interesting dynamic to the Lostaways.

[drewbeartx.livejournal.com]

All 4 of the Backenders will shift the dynamics of the Lostaways. Personally, I can't wait to see how Locke and Mister Eko butt heads. Because I really don't think that Eko's going to quietly submit to Locke's Prophet of the Island routine.

[drewbeartx.livejournal.com]

Now, I'm not feeling the Ana Lucia love like you are, but I do understand why she's acting the way she is. I just feel put off by her. ::shrug:: That may change as we see more of her in a non-OMGOTHERS!! situation.

But you've gotta admit that the writers gave us a better reason for Ana's bitchiness than they did last time for Shannon's.

[prairiedaun.livejournal.com]

I really enjoy your analysis.

I don't love Ana Lucia, but I must say I like her a lot more after this episode. I'm not quite sure about my reaction (liking her a hell of a lot more) on her actually breaking down. Hrm. I guess I like to see a little weakness in characters and up until then she was all
"Grr! Let's get this done NOW!" which, okay yeah. Needs to be done. But after forty days she had to break at some point. Good to see Mr Eko there to be there for her.

I was enjoying trying to track the Tailaways progress compared to the Lostaways. In the beginning when someone asked "Is there any water?" I realized just how bad it was going to be for them. Never mind the fact that I was taken completely off guard by Goodwin until he killed Nathan (when Nathan said Canada I was all "omgwtfpolarbear, it's a script they must have when questioned!" *ahem*)

And Bernard! I love Bernard. And Libby. And Cindy, but now she's gone. I hope we see her again at some point.

Sorry for babbling in response to your most excellent analysis.

[etoilepb.livejournal.com]

Now, see, I STILL think Ana-Lucia's a stone-cold bitch, to excess. But I also think Kate is a pain in the ass and Sawyer's an asshole and Shannon's whiny (and useless, no matter what sympathy her flashback tried to generate) and Jack has a complex and Charlie's controlling and in denial and so on and so on and so forth.

But I also think that some characters are just more worth the trouble than others. The only person on the island I perceive as really hostile and cold is Ana Lucia, and I don't see that going away anytime soon, gratuitous "Girl crying" scene or no.

[slashfairy.livejournal.com]

I, sadly, have no real access to season two, and was going to avoid all spoilers until I saw that your whole post was linked to what is behind the cut. I thought, 'Well, trollprincess is that adamant about it? I want to read it just to read her reasoning.' And you know? I'm glad I did. You're a cogent observer/analyst, an entertaining writer, and frankly, just knowing plot developments still doesn't tell me where JJ and all are taking this, them, or us...so really, no spoilage at all, just more temptation. Thank you!

[sizequeen.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you on the subject of Ana-Lucia. I knew thatshe had gone through a horrible ordeal and this episode would show what the Tailaways have gone through.

I think the problem is with Rodriguez' acting.

Durng the revious episode she came off as a smirking, power-mad asshole. She seemed to get off on hurting Jin, Michael and Sawyer. It wasn't just necessity; she seemed to be goading them, so that she could inflict pain on them.

And maybe she did. I can see wanting some payback. But when I compare her top Mr. Ecko, I can't allow myself to think that that's okay. Ecko, who has killed at least twop people is struggling to hold on to his humanity, hsemopathy for other human beings. Ana-Lucia seems to hav given up. It's understandable, but it reduces my sympathy for her.

I think that the accidental killing of Shannon will wake up that numbed sleeoping humanity in her.

[dargie.livejournal.com]

I haven't yet seen tonight's ep, but I already get why Ana Lucia is the way she is. Mostly. But at the same time, the very fact that she's like the de facto leader of the group is really unnerving because she's not fit to lead. Yeah she's a tough, resourceful woman and hurrah for that. But she's also childish in the extreme, and whenever things even suggest the merest hint of maybe possibly thinking about the remotest chance of going wrong, she starts spewing blame all over everyone. And this, more than anything, is why I cannot stand her. If she'd had a lick of sense along with all that strength and resourcefulness, I'd be totally on her side. But she gets the gun, she calls the shots, and now someone's dead because of her, and I don't much like that. I can't wait to see who she blames for that.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

the very fact that she's like the de facto leader of the group is really unnerving because she's not fit to lead

YES! As a defender, she's great, but as a leader, she's uneven and barely in control. Several things bugged me about last night's ep:

1) If she noticed that whatshisface came out of the jungle dry after the accident, why did she spend so much time torturing another tailaway? I liked that she had the brass ovaries to kill an enemy, but the whole "I know you're a bad guy" speech had me going "aaaaaand it took you how many days to remember something you apparently noticed right away?"

2) She's not in control of the tailaways. She shouts a lot and snaps a lot, but if there was organized resistance to her leadership, the other tailaways will turn on her. If it weren't for Eko, she'd've already gone down. As little as I like Jack, he's had the right idea - since he leads with consensus, he is a strong leader.

3) She panicks. For someone who seems to have some sort of military background (I'm thinking army brat myself, since she doesn't seem to have the discipline of a trained soldier) she makes too many decisions with her gut instead of her brain, and that has hurt her little tribe as much as the predations of the Outsiders - and now it's led to the death of one Lostaway and the probable death of another.

She's tough, and gets points for that. Her idea to "infiltrate" the captured Lostaways and her strength in killing the Other are both in her favor, but those aspects do not a leader make.

She's more of the Sayid of the Tailaways than the Jack - and now that she's in a one-on-one battle with Sayid, I'm hoping that they don't dump his character in favor of hers. It troubles me that we seem to see her coming up to beat him while he appears to be tied down - why would the Lostaways turn on one of their own like that? Particularly in favor of someone they have less than no reason to trust?

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I think it's the thing that hooks me, because I will be the first to admit she's a bad leader. Whoever said it's like that episode of Star Trek where Kirk was divided into "good" and "bad" versions (with Jack being the "good" version and Ana-Lucia being the "bad", and how much do we appreciate Jack's leadership now?) is pretty damn correct. But the thing is, she was the only one to step up. With the exception of Mr. Eko, none of the Tailaways could find their ass with both hands, a map, and a compass, and I think it's obvious he doesn't want to lead -- he's the Locke of that group on a much more subtle scale.

None of the Tailaways that are left have ever stepped up (as far as we were shown) to say, "You know what? I think I should lead." And I honestly don't think if the original Tailaways had been around that she would be leader. She would have been almost exactly like Kate, all "I'm coming with you." But the others came and stole the first three, and with Eko not saying anything (I think that would have been the moment he would have been mostly like to take leadership, but he was too busy committing a vow of silence for penance or whatever), people just started going to Ana-Lucia, probably because they felt someone had to make the hard decisions, and, well, "That guy's leg is infected, what should we do about it?" requires someone who can say, "What do you honestly expect us to do here?" without flinching.

Once you get down to those last few Tailaways after the second round of abductions, you've got Cindy, Libby, and Bernard (who are sweet, but refer back to that ass/map description), Mr. Eko (not much with the leading anyone at this point, what with the silence), Nathan (thought to be the traitor), and Goodwin (the actual traitor). The only one left is Ana-Lucia. She didn't get that job because she was good at it -- she got it because of a distinct lack of other options. And after she killed Goodwin, effectively saving the Tailaways (probably the only thing she's done right the entire time), she kind of cemented her place regardless of the fact that she sucks as a leader.

I mean, look at the Lostaways -- if Jack died tomorrow, there are a bunch of strong leaders who could step up. Hell, Locke would be first, and after Locke there's Sayid and Kate. Yes, I said Kate -- even though I loathe her, they've equipped her with enough skills and put her in a perfect position to lead if it came to that. God knows I don't want THAT day to come, because I could see Ana-Lucia Redux there, but still.

The thing with Ana-Lucia and the Tailaways is that this is what would have happened if everything had gone wrong Lostaways -- if Jack had been a shitty leader, if there hadn't been anybody else to follow, if there hadn't been a way to vent. Say what you will about how silly the golf thing is, but Hurley's right. These people need to do something to take their minds off what's going on on this very stressful island, and none of the Tailaways have gotten that. Every moment of every day is full of stress for them, and I think that's what killing them, why there are so few of them, and part of the reason why Ana-Lucia is such a bad leader.

[dargie.livejournal.com]

I have no argument with any of this, and as I said, I haven't seen last night's ep, so the whole Tailaways story is a mystery to me. But all things considered, I still dislike the woman intensely, which is a shame because I so wanted to like her, if only so many people hated her well in advance of her first real appearance in the show. Just for the record, I like Kate quite a lot, so it's entirely possible that you and I just have vastly different issues with people.

[dargie.livejournal.com]

That should read: "... if only because so many people..." Bah, my brain went on hold this morning.

[fyrdrakken]

The fact that she's the best the Tailaways had doesn't make her a good leader.

And regarding charges of hypocrisy -- well, my feelings on Shannon and Sawyer being the same character with fandom reacting to them based on which any individual fan finds attractive are on record in icon form (though sadly not in my current rotation). As for Charlie shooting Ethan, the big difference between Ethan and Nathan is that Ethan had shown his colors as someone who needed killin', whereas Nathan hadn't done anything but apparently aggravate Ana by arguing with her way back when in the enter the jungle vs. tend the signal fire debate. By being so willing to torture someone based on mere suspicion, Ana wound up being responsible for the death of the wrong guy. She didn't kill him herself, but she was willing to starve him and cut off a finger. (I am going to cut her some slack in terms of recognizing Goodwin, because the whole dry-and-running-out-of-the-jungle thing is indeed the kind of detail that may lurk in the back of the mind for weeks before someone finally realizes its significance.)

So, yeah. She's the only leader the Tailaways had, and their seven weeks on the island sucked harder than the Lostaways'. (Though between abduction, boar attack, interpersonal conflict, polar bears, voices in the trees, and Lostzilla, it's not like the Lostaways have had an island vacation here.) She's also way too fucking quick to jump directly to violence as a solution. Sayid at least is like Mr. Eko in that he's been trying not to be that way.

[foenix.livejournal.com]

Complete agreement on Ana Lucia. I *thought* I'd mentioned some of the stuff along the lines of "Well, they've obviously had it worse, so of course she's gonna be a bit...harsh", but I may've just said it out loud, and not actually typed it in. ;)

[ficangel.livejournal.com]

Is it too forward for me to say that I love you? 'Cause yis.

[palmetto.livejournal.com]

Completely OT: It's taken me this long to get the reference in your icon, but every time I look at it now, I giggle.

[thebitterguy]

Another observation: With the tail hitting the water, they had no superstructure to cannabilize for shelter, couldn't scavenge any food from it, and apparently didn't have guys who were trained hunters or fishermen. So they were definitely in much more dire straits.

Hell, they didn't even have a jolly fat guy OR a set of clubs.

[bcgphoenix]

As someone who quite literally couldn't even hear half of the dialogue last night because her friends were too busy loudly discussing what a stupid, unredeemable, raging bitch Ana-Lucia was:

THANK YOU.

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU!

It's incredible the amount of Ana Lucia hate that's out there in the fandom. I didn't hate her before and I certainly don't hate her now. She'll always have my love and respect if for no other reason then because she stood up and took responsibility. She didn't have to have it thrust on her, she doesn't whine, go all emo or crazy she just gets the job done. Yeah she's made some crappy decisions but there weren't any good ones that could be made. It was a horrible situation and she did all she could keep get herself and the other survivors safe.

Frankly, I think she's a much better leader then Jack will ever be.