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Jun. 28th, 2006 07:21 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
apocalypsosI was thinking about this last night and really just wanted to put my thoughts down in regards to Jeffrey Dean Morgan and his roles on Grey's Anatomy and Supernatural.
So, here's my thing.
Denny's dead. *whimpers* And now JDM is free to stay on Supernatural as John alive and still hunting, I suppose.
Here's the thing -- I think I would have preferred it from a storytelling point of view if it had been the other way around.
I've been thinking a lot about what Izzie's story becomes now on GA with Denny dead and what it would have been if he had lived. With Denny dead and Izzie leaving the program, I have a feeling all about her deciding in the end that yeah, she IS a surgeon, and trying to get back into the program. I don't know if she even can or not ... hell, I don't even know if I'm speculating the plotline the right way.
I think my big problem from the beginning with the Denny plotline (and God knows it hasn't been Denny at ALL) was that it was less about the characters and more about getting Izzie to do something shocking at the end of the season. Denny was completely set up less as a person and more as a pawn to get her to do something. Honestly, what did we ever find out about him? We knew he had a heart problem and liked to flirt with Izzie. How much else? Not much, if anything.
Then JDM took it and ran with it. He was adorable even though we really knew nothing about Denny. I have this urge to write a fic where Izzie starts finding out things about Denny during the planning of the funeral that she never knew before -- relatives he never mentioned, things he never mentioned he'd done, secrets he'd been keeping -- and wondering if she really was in love with a stranger. I don't know if they'll explore that on the show next season, but that's one of the reasons I would have loved to see what would have happened if Denny had lived.
The two got engaged in haste, but what they had from beginning to end was a sweet, giddy relationship. Yeah, there was the pain of the heart surgeries and everything that went with them, but they were doing okay. Hell, they were doing better than okay. For Grey's Anatomy, they were practically perfect with the exception of a questionable heart valve or two. I mean, look at the romantic entanglements on Grey's Anatomy:
1. Meredith and McDreamy -- An extramarital affair carried out between two people who should never have gotten together in the first place per their respective occupations.
2. Meredith and McVet -- Cute, as long as you ignore the fact that she's pining for her married lover.
3. George and Callie -- Awkward but well-meaning. Callie loves him. He's working up to it.
4. Alex and Izzie -- All about sex.
5. Addison and McDreamy -- Two people who shouldn't be married staying together for the sake of ... um, the trailer? The dog? I'll get back to you on that.
6. Webber and his wife -- She knows he had an affair with Ellis Grey and is still in love with her.
7. Cristina and Burke -- They really love one another. They're also irrevocably mismatched, although it seems to be working for them so far.
8. Bailey and her husband -- He's nice, she's strong, they seem to work well together for the few episodes we saw them together. Ten bucks says we never see him again.
That's one of the main things that bothers me about Grey's Anatomy. Watching GA makes me grateful to be single, because apparently all relationships suck out loud. A nice normal relationship on Grey's Anatomy between main characters doesn't last.
I keep trying to picture how the main characters would have reacted if Denny had lived, if he and Izzie had stayed together, if they'd married and moved in together and been happy. (Can I tell you how tempted I am to write AU fic where Denny and Izzie run off to Vegas after he gets out of the hospital and get hitched and THEN start learning about one another? Because it's killing me.) So few of the characters on here are ever happy, much less happy most of the time. George and Meredith live with Izzie. Alex's probably still in love with her. They're all best friends. Izzie and Denny's relationship touches all of the people she knows. How does Meredith react to McDreamy as she watches her friend being treated far better than McDreamy's ever treated her? Would George fall for Callie faster with Izzie and Denny's relationship as an example, or would he break up with her for her sake? Hell, I'm curious what Burke would try to do for Cristina after seeing Izzie and Denny together.
Of course, that all depended on what would have happened once Denny got out of the hospital. Like I said, they'd have their problems already set up for them -- life following the transplant, not knowing each other outside of a hospital bed, etc. But if they could overcome those and still maintain a healthy romance, I would have loved to see what they could have done with the storyline.
I mean, it's not like I'm expecting hearts and flowers and everything rosy and brilliant all the time. I just wanted something a little more ... functional, I guess. I'm not saying I want it all the time, but my God, does no one on that show get to be in a content relationship and stay in it? I would have adored to see what could have been done with that.
And then there's Supernatural.
I'm a little worried about what it might mean if John lives. It's not that I don't like John -- God knows I love John in all of his fucked-up nuttiness.
But Dean and Sam are two entirely different people when John is around. They argue, but not the same way they do when John is around. They're more stressed when he's there, the tension higher. He grates on Sam, and then they fight, and then Dean has to break them up. And then there's a lull and the cycle starts up all over again.
This isn't something that I can see changing after the events of "Devil's Trap". The show has given us the impression that it's always been like this, that Sam and John argue and Dean is left to stand between them. This is not a new thing, and one more life-and-death situation -- even if it IS the demon -- probably won't change that. Which means John traveling with Sam and Dean would be more angst and less Dean flirting with girls and the boys playing tricks with one another. Not that I think the occasional fun would stop indefinitely, but with the Winchesters hot on the demon's trail and John around, I don't see the guy who managed to drag Dean away from Cassie letting Dean have the occasional threesome in the middle of THIS hunt. (... damn it.)
I keep focusing on Dean's reaction. This is still not Dean's hunt. The demon took Mary and Jessica -- this is Sam and John's hunt, and as much as Dean loved Mary, he's not in this nearly as deep as Sam and John are. Dean loves his family to pieces, but there's a difference between Mary's death and what would happen if either Sam or John were taken from him. If John dies due to his injuries, this hunt becomes entirely different for both boys, especially for Dean.
If John dies or he doesn't, the show still becomes different than it started out. I mean, here's our options:
1. John dies.
2. John lives, but stays in the hospital for an indefinite amount of time.
3. John lives, is out of the hospital relatively quickly, and is on the hunt with the boys.
4. John lives, is out of the hospital relatively quickly, and leaves the boys.
The last option gets us back to the formula most of us fell in love with -- four wheels, a trunk full of guns, a country full of monsters, a missing father, and two hot brothers with daddy issues. The problem is that with the storyline the way it's been going, I can't see that happening. John might leave now to protect the boys, but I think he's smart enough to realize that they're all targets no matter where they are.
As much as I want to see the Winchesters hunting together, I'm not sure I want to see it at this stage of the hunt. Before college, yes. I'd love a flashback to beforehand, with teenage Sam being all angst-ridden and angry and John trying to keep his son and safe and Dean just trying to keep his family together. And I'd love if it Sam chose the hunt in the end. But right now I'm not sure the three of them hunting together is a good idea. I do think they need to work at being stronger as a family, but I'm not sure this would work.
And then there's the option of John still alive but, say, in a coma. I kind of like this idea, as cheesy as it might be. He's not dead, but he's not on the hunt, either. And his injuries would give the hunt a different dimension for Dean and Sam, one which would be even stronger if he were to pass away.
(Aaaaaaand now I have a plotbunny. Which means I'm awake, I suppose.)
So, yeah. That's just me rambling, I guess. I guess I'm just playing with possibilities in my head and I'm not exactly sure I like where they're going. I mean, I'm hopeful, but still.
I'm killing time until America's Got Talent. No, really. Somebody else watch this tonight so I don't feel so much like a tool.
So, here's my thing.
Denny's dead. *whimpers* And now JDM is free to stay on Supernatural as John alive and still hunting, I suppose.
Here's the thing -- I think I would have preferred it from a storytelling point of view if it had been the other way around.
I've been thinking a lot about what Izzie's story becomes now on GA with Denny dead and what it would have been if he had lived. With Denny dead and Izzie leaving the program, I have a feeling all about her deciding in the end that yeah, she IS a surgeon, and trying to get back into the program. I don't know if she even can or not ... hell, I don't even know if I'm speculating the plotline the right way.
I think my big problem from the beginning with the Denny plotline (and God knows it hasn't been Denny at ALL) was that it was less about the characters and more about getting Izzie to do something shocking at the end of the season. Denny was completely set up less as a person and more as a pawn to get her to do something. Honestly, what did we ever find out about him? We knew he had a heart problem and liked to flirt with Izzie. How much else? Not much, if anything.
Then JDM took it and ran with it. He was adorable even though we really knew nothing about Denny. I have this urge to write a fic where Izzie starts finding out things about Denny during the planning of the funeral that she never knew before -- relatives he never mentioned, things he never mentioned he'd done, secrets he'd been keeping -- and wondering if she really was in love with a stranger. I don't know if they'll explore that on the show next season, but that's one of the reasons I would have loved to see what would have happened if Denny had lived.
The two got engaged in haste, but what they had from beginning to end was a sweet, giddy relationship. Yeah, there was the pain of the heart surgeries and everything that went with them, but they were doing okay. Hell, they were doing better than okay. For Grey's Anatomy, they were practically perfect with the exception of a questionable heart valve or two. I mean, look at the romantic entanglements on Grey's Anatomy:
1. Meredith and McDreamy -- An extramarital affair carried out between two people who should never have gotten together in the first place per their respective occupations.
2. Meredith and McVet -- Cute, as long as you ignore the fact that she's pining for her married lover.
3. George and Callie -- Awkward but well-meaning. Callie loves him. He's working up to it.
4. Alex and Izzie -- All about sex.
5. Addison and McDreamy -- Two people who shouldn't be married staying together for the sake of ... um, the trailer? The dog? I'll get back to you on that.
6. Webber and his wife -- She knows he had an affair with Ellis Grey and is still in love with her.
7. Cristina and Burke -- They really love one another. They're also irrevocably mismatched, although it seems to be working for them so far.
8. Bailey and her husband -- He's nice, she's strong, they seem to work well together for the few episodes we saw them together. Ten bucks says we never see him again.
That's one of the main things that bothers me about Grey's Anatomy. Watching GA makes me grateful to be single, because apparently all relationships suck out loud. A nice normal relationship on Grey's Anatomy between main characters doesn't last.
I keep trying to picture how the main characters would have reacted if Denny had lived, if he and Izzie had stayed together, if they'd married and moved in together and been happy. (Can I tell you how tempted I am to write AU fic where Denny and Izzie run off to Vegas after he gets out of the hospital and get hitched and THEN start learning about one another? Because it's killing me.) So few of the characters on here are ever happy, much less happy most of the time. George and Meredith live with Izzie. Alex's probably still in love with her. They're all best friends. Izzie and Denny's relationship touches all of the people she knows. How does Meredith react to McDreamy as she watches her friend being treated far better than McDreamy's ever treated her? Would George fall for Callie faster with Izzie and Denny's relationship as an example, or would he break up with her for her sake? Hell, I'm curious what Burke would try to do for Cristina after seeing Izzie and Denny together.
Of course, that all depended on what would have happened once Denny got out of the hospital. Like I said, they'd have their problems already set up for them -- life following the transplant, not knowing each other outside of a hospital bed, etc. But if they could overcome those and still maintain a healthy romance, I would have loved to see what they could have done with the storyline.
I mean, it's not like I'm expecting hearts and flowers and everything rosy and brilliant all the time. I just wanted something a little more ... functional, I guess. I'm not saying I want it all the time, but my God, does no one on that show get to be in a content relationship and stay in it? I would have adored to see what could have been done with that.
And then there's Supernatural.
I'm a little worried about what it might mean if John lives. It's not that I don't like John -- God knows I love John in all of his fucked-up nuttiness.
But Dean and Sam are two entirely different people when John is around. They argue, but not the same way they do when John is around. They're more stressed when he's there, the tension higher. He grates on Sam, and then they fight, and then Dean has to break them up. And then there's a lull and the cycle starts up all over again.
This isn't something that I can see changing after the events of "Devil's Trap". The show has given us the impression that it's always been like this, that Sam and John argue and Dean is left to stand between them. This is not a new thing, and one more life-and-death situation -- even if it IS the demon -- probably won't change that. Which means John traveling with Sam and Dean would be more angst and less Dean flirting with girls and the boys playing tricks with one another. Not that I think the occasional fun would stop indefinitely, but with the Winchesters hot on the demon's trail and John around, I don't see the guy who managed to drag Dean away from Cassie letting Dean have the occasional threesome in the middle of THIS hunt. (... damn it.)
I keep focusing on Dean's reaction. This is still not Dean's hunt. The demon took Mary and Jessica -- this is Sam and John's hunt, and as much as Dean loved Mary, he's not in this nearly as deep as Sam and John are. Dean loves his family to pieces, but there's a difference between Mary's death and what would happen if either Sam or John were taken from him. If John dies due to his injuries, this hunt becomes entirely different for both boys, especially for Dean.
If John dies or he doesn't, the show still becomes different than it started out. I mean, here's our options:
1. John dies.
2. John lives, but stays in the hospital for an indefinite amount of time.
3. John lives, is out of the hospital relatively quickly, and is on the hunt with the boys.
4. John lives, is out of the hospital relatively quickly, and leaves the boys.
The last option gets us back to the formula most of us fell in love with -- four wheels, a trunk full of guns, a country full of monsters, a missing father, and two hot brothers with daddy issues. The problem is that with the storyline the way it's been going, I can't see that happening. John might leave now to protect the boys, but I think he's smart enough to realize that they're all targets no matter where they are.
As much as I want to see the Winchesters hunting together, I'm not sure I want to see it at this stage of the hunt. Before college, yes. I'd love a flashback to beforehand, with teenage Sam being all angst-ridden and angry and John trying to keep his son and safe and Dean just trying to keep his family together. And I'd love if it Sam chose the hunt in the end. But right now I'm not sure the three of them hunting together is a good idea. I do think they need to work at being stronger as a family, but I'm not sure this would work.
And then there's the option of John still alive but, say, in a coma. I kind of like this idea, as cheesy as it might be. He's not dead, but he's not on the hunt, either. And his injuries would give the hunt a different dimension for Dean and Sam, one which would be even stronger if he were to pass away.
(Aaaaaaand now I have a plotbunny. Which means I'm awake, I suppose.)
So, yeah. That's just me rambling, I guess. I guess I'm just playing with possibilities in my head and I'm not exactly sure I like where they're going. I mean, I'm hopeful, but still.
I'm killing time until America's Got Talent. No, really. Somebody else watch this tonight so I don't feel so much like a tool.
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no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 12:24 am (UTC)I think I would have preferred it from a storytelling point of view if it had been the other way around.
Because I'm really not that keen on John returning for Season 2 as a "regular" character and I'm praying Kripke doesn't take it that way.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 12:31 am (UTC)Because I'm really not that keen on John returning for Season 2 as a "regular" character and I'm praying Kripke doesn't take it that way.
Amen. I love JDM, but ... no.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 12:34 am (UTC)I don't know. I just like them all broken. The pieces are so easy to lay together in pretty shapes.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 12:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 12:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 01:20 am (UTC)(and i encourage these bunnies. all over them. especially the GA ones because no one else will.)
no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 01:22 am (UTC)Hi, I've been lurking here, reading the fic. Wanted to just in and say I agree with your assessment of John, and I'm with you in feeling that flashbacks would be the best way to keep John in, oh, say, six or seven episodes of season two.
Not that I want him to die, either, but the show will get too far away from that core idea we love so much if Dad's in the back seat bossing them around. In many ways John functions best (as Mary does, in a different way) in the background as a symbol. He was a powerful figure in the show before he even (re)appeared on screen in the present day; he's in every episode whether he's present or not. And he's best in small, potent doses, for us the viewers, and no doubt as a father for Sam and Dean as well.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 01:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 01:29 am (UTC)*facedesk*
no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 01:37 am (UTC)I hate when TV shows do that, so when I saw it coming, I wanted to punch someone in the face. You know, after I bawled for an hour.
If Izzie gets back together to Alex any time, I'm going to get even more pissed. SHEESH.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 01:57 am (UTC)That's what I'm gunning for, at least.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 01:59 am (UTC)I'm not sure I have enough faith in the writers to go that route, but I can always dream. :)
no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 02:21 am (UTC)And now i'm all frustrated by the fact that keeping Denny alie totally opens up more plotlines than killing him did.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 04:06 am (UTC)Here's the thing -- I think I would have preferred it from a storytelling point of view if it had been the other way around.
Heh. I was thinking, towards the finales of both shows, that if John died, it would screw the boys up even more. On the other hand, if Denny died, it would screw up me; I will miss Denny far more than I'd miss John if/when he's gone for good - we're used to him not being there, you know?
Can I tell you how tempted I am to write AU fic where Denny and Izzie run off to Vegas after he gets out of the hospital and get hitched and THEN start learning about one another?
Soooooooo. What's stopping you?
Also, another thing we know about Denny is that he's a marine biologist, wasn't ever sick until he got sick; he's not rich but he's comfortably well-off. And... okay, that's it.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 04:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 04:28 am (UTC)I have $4.72CDN and 3 canisters of Tim Horton's hot chocolate mix to my name, but I'll give it ALL to you if you write this fic.
have this urge to write a fic where Izzie starts finding out things about Denny during the planning of the funeral that she never knew before -- relatives he never mentioned, things he never mentioned he'd done, secrets he'd been keeping
This one, too.
PUH-LEASE.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-29 10:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-30 08:58 am (UTC)How susceptible are you to bribery, and is there anything I can send from australia specifically? Tim tams? Haigh's chocolate (please specify flavour) Vegemite?