And now that I'm caught up with Monday night TV ...

[apocalypsos]

I've already said as much in poisontaster's review post but I'm genuinely creeped out by the Claire/West storyline, and not for the reason I imagine Kring wants me to be. Kring wants me to be creeped out because West was taken by the Company (and Bennet in particular) and it's entirely possible that he's using her to get to her father. Bennet was standing right there when West nearly hit her with his car in the premiere -- it's not outside the realm of possibility that West thinks that he can get to HRG through Claire, that she doesn't know what her father does/did for a living, and was shocked to discover her abilities, since it just makes what HRG did to him completely hypocritical in his eyes. I don't like his behavior at all but I get it -- I mean, how would you behave if your abductor suddenly moved into the neighborhood? Sneaking around and being a jerk to his kid aren't exactly outside understanding.

What I haaaaate in this plotline is Claire's reaction to his behavior. He harasses her, he won't leave her alone, he acts like a jerk, he stares through her window and practically outs her in her biology class, but oh, he can fly so let's make out! And in part we're supposed to understand that this sudden connection is due to the fact that he is a "freak" like her, and therefore she's willing to forgive him and ... oh, they're kissing! Aw, isn't that cute?

Uh, NO. I'm really getting sick of seeing these male characters on TV who decide they're going to approach a woman, are rebuffed, and just keep going. And I'm not talking about being persistent, I'm talking about avidly pursuing someone to such an extent that a real woman would file a restraining order. I just keep thinking about how grateful I was that I gave up Studio 60 when I found out about the extent to which Bradley Whitford's character pursued Amanda Peet, even after she told him she had no interest in him, did not want to pursue a relationship with him, and wanted him to stop. What really pisses me off about storylines like that is that it not only gives off the impression that a woman will go out with you eventually just as long as you keep harassing the hell out of her, AND that what girls really want are assholes who stalk them leading to those oh-so-fun nice-guy discussions where we have to say, "No, it's not that we won't date nice guys, it's that we won't date YOU -- big difference," and yet STILL don't get listened to, but it's also an annoying double standard.

Imagine if Claire were a male character and West were female. He tells her to leave him alone and she won't. She leaves him books on his doorstep and peeks through his window. She outs him in biology class. Her behavior wouldn't be portrayed as romantic, it'd be portrayed as pathetic or scary or bitchy.

It's particularly jarring considering that they really did go there with Candice and make her overweight under her illusion-self. Right now I'm really not liking the female situation on Heroes:

-- Janice and Heidi? Gone.
-- Claire has fallen in with her stalker out of a desperate need to be around someone like her.
-- Candice is dead, and the facade of her beautiful self faded away to her "ugly" reality.
-- Caitlin, while sweet, isn't being given much to do other than clean up blood and be *there*, like that wife that's waiting at home for the soldier to come back from the real action. (Even in the robbery as a getaway driver, she barely even gets to do that.)
-- Mrs. Bennet, while awesome, still really is the wife that's waiting at home for the soldier to come back from the real action.
-- Niki is going to try to have her strength taken away.
-- Molly is still a little girl who needs protecting by Mohinder and Matt.
-- Hiro's princess needed to be saved by him and has since spent most of her time fawning over Kensei.
-- Maya needs her brother to protect her and keep her from killing other people.
-- Mama Petrelli is the one woman who's been given a chance to be inwardly strong this season, and at the rate we're going would anybody really be surprised if she did get killed off?
-- The Casting Spoiler of Extreme Overexposure (Do you know what it's like for me? It's like the song "Hey Delilah". It's very pretty, I really do like it, and yet the local radio stations overplayed the fuck of it and now I can barely stand to listen to it), from the descriptions I've seen of her character, is not giving me great hopes of Kring and company suddenly changing their tune.

It's just this vibe that Heroes has been giving off for me -- not just recently, but this season it's been worse. It's possible I'm being oversensitive about the whole thing, and we haven't even gotten to see Nichelle Nichols in action yet, although considering she is Nichelle fucking Nichols I'm hopeful I'll be much more comfortable with her than I've been so far this season with the behavior of the female characters on this show.

*sigh*

Oh, and did you notice the guy in Mexico was driving Claire's car? HEE!

Okay, I'm good now. :)

*****

Well, it took long enough but I'm finally liking Chuck's home situation and Morgan as well. As annoying as he can be he was really trying to help Chuck get that promotion by encouraging the others, which was good. (Aaaand after "Speak for yourself," I now want to write girlsmut with Anna from the Nerd Herd and ... I don't know, whoever. Sarah's free.) And they've really gotten better at expressing that it's less Ellie and Captain Awesome that are problematic and more that it's Chuck's self-esteem that strains the relationship. And that for his vague dopeyness, Captain Awesome is fairly nice and encouraging to Chuck. I don't know a lot of guys who'd treat their girlfriend's loser brother/roommate so good. I may go back and amend my Yuletide submission for Captain Awesome fic, because that fourth option I gave (to replace my Pride and Prejudice bunny because it wasn't on the list ... *sigh*) was less something I wanted and more something I didn't NOT want. If that even makes sense.

Also, flying toasters! Adam Baldwin fucking ROCKS.

*****

I continue to love Journeyman, which means it'd probably be cancelled next week. Considering my luck, something's got to go eventually and that's on Yahoo's list of shows that'll probably go first, so. *shrugs*

Okay, have to go finish that thing I was working on yesterday. Here's hoping I can get it done by the time I have to go to work.

P.S. It's October and eighty degrees outside. Dear summer, I think you're stalking me so I'm leaving you for autumn. You can keep the bath towels. Love and other indoor sports, me.

Comments

[storydivagirl.livejournal.com]

I agree with both you and PT about West. I think what bugs me most is that they've created Claire to be a strong female character and yet just by him flying her into the sunset she seems to forget that he was stalking her and demeaning her. It's like a creepy abusive relationship.

I love Chuck. I just adore it.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I was already skeeved by him pretty much being like, "Don't conform! Be like me!", which ... hello, excuse me while I drown in the hypocrisy of high school clique formations. And now this. *shudders*

[anne-jumps.livejournal.com]

What I haaaaate in this plotline is Claire's reaction to his behavior. He harasses her, he won't leave her alone, he acts like a jerk, he stares through her window and practically outs her in her biology class, but oh, he can fly so let's make out! And in part we're supposed to understand that this sudden connection is due to the fact that he is a "freak" like her, and therefore she's willing to forgive him and ... oh, they're kissing! Aw, isn't that cute?

Ugh, yes. I've read similar reactions to this and I feel the same way. I'm disappointed in the show for taking this tack.

[legxleg.livejournal.com]

hi, I pretty much lurk around your journal for fic, but I just wanted to comment to say that I am in so much agreement with you about the Claire/West thing on Heroes. He's a jerk and a stalker and seriously, TV, girls don't *really* like that. I mean, even right before they kiss there was this bit where she's crying and he says 'shut up!', which I'm sure was meant to be somehow romantic or passionate, but as I was watching all I thought 'oh my god, if I were Claire I would slap him so hard right now.' But apparently in TV-land, that's cue for cheesy making out. Yuck.

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

It just seems to me that the Heroes writers are not very good at (intentionally) setting up romances. They do OK with friendships, partnerships, they do very well with families, and better with established pairings, but fall flat when they try to kick start a ship--which is weird, since this is the part most shows do best.

It reminds me of the scene last season with Matt reading his wife's mind--we were probably supposed to see that as romantic, whereas I just thought it was invasive and creepy in the extreme.

[laughingacademy.livejournal.com]

I'm really getting sick of seeing these male characters on TV who decide they're going to approach a woman, are rebuffed, and just keep going. And I'm not talking about being persistent, I'm talking about avidly pursuing someone to such an extent that a real woman would file a restraining order.

Oh, WORD. A big heaping bowl of WORD with WORD sauce, topped with shredded WORD.

I’m looking at the credits page of the official Heroes site and seeing two (maybe three) female writers listed out of 12. What odds either or any of them were involved in this week’s script? (I’m hoping none, because ARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH.)

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

I’m looking at the credits page of the official Heroes site and seeing two (maybe three) female writers listed out of 12. What odds either or any of them were involved in this week’s script? (I’m hoping none, because ARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH.)

Actually, I think this week was the first script that was written entirely by a woman.

[laughingacademy.livejournal.com]

*headdesk*

[namey.livejournal.com]

It seems they're trying to dumb it down with some of the storylines this season... Hiro aka Cyrano... Claire/West going some disturbing Superman/Freudian route ("he flies like my real dad" is gonna get referenced eventually, I betcha). Bad plot's bound to lead into at least some subtle (and occasionally not) misogyny somewhere.

That said:
- It was already all but spelled out that Candice's real form wasn't going to be subjectively on par with her illusions (though I was hoping for a midget, personally).
- Mrs. B didn't have much of a part before either.
- Molly is a little girl. I don't think gender applies to the protection angle here.
- Nikki: I call her still thinking strength requires Jessica, and that's a Bad Thing(tm).

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, the Candice thing was spelled out, but it still smarts. Out of all of the routes they could have gone with her real form, they went with the easiest.

And Mrs. Bennet didn't have much of a part before, yes, but like I said, the gender politics didn't start out good to begin with. Heidi, Janice, Mrs. Bennet ... all sitting at home, waiting for their men. It was like this last year, too, and the trend's not looking to get any better.

The Molly mention was more for my benefit, really, just to get every female cast member out of my head. :)

And I think it might be less that Niki thinks Jessica is a requirement to having the strength than it is that Jessica is something saddled onto the gift. Like, she doesn't need her to keep it but to keep it means she's stuck with her, if that even makes sense.

[milkshake-b.livejournal.com]

Mrs. Bennet is actually one of the favorite characters of a friend of mine, because apparently that is a certain kind of Southern wife, right down to her toes.

[fyrdrakken]

Come to think of it, swap Mr. Muggles for a toy poodle named Colby and Mrs. Bennett becomes a dead ringer for my first stepmother.

[calliopes_pen]

Yeah, the West storyline is extremely stalkerish. I've had the guy watching through a window happen before (from 6th through 10th grade--he became a serial killer eventually, but that's a whole other story). It doesn't make you want to date him or talk to him, it just leaves you freaked out of ever standing near windows. You wouldn't immediately like the guy.

And at least it's not just me thinking they're weakening all the women. Even Mom noticed, and she's not a fan of the show.

I honestly didn't notice that Claire's car is now in Mexico. *laughs* Was it the same car that Maya and Alejandro tried to steal later or was that another one?

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

No, it was the one the American guy gave them a ride in later on in the episode. The TWoP recaplet said it was a Nissan, but they focused on the Go Conquistadors sticker and I could swear her car looked like that anyway. :)

[anenko.livejournal.com]

I agree with this so *very* much. I'm starting to hate Heroes, just a little bit because it can't handle women or characters of colour. I *despise* West to the point of feeling ill every time I see his face. And Candice's true form being a fat girl made me roll my eyes (really. *really.* because being fat is the only reason a woman could possibly want to change her appearance if she had a nifty power like Candice. I hope to hell that her "death" is just another illusion to fuck with Sylar's mind).

Peter bores the hell out of me. I'm hoping that his new Irish family are part of some elaborate mindfuck, because otherwise, that plotline is stale.

[kelly-girl.livejournal.com]

Regarding West: Thank you. Exactly.

I was talking to a friend last night in chat and she was like "Awww, I like West." and I was like "Er. why? He's a creepy stalker who has no right to tell some girl he just met a few days ago that she should be different." My friend said she hadn't thought of it that way.

He makes me really uneasy. He thought that shit in the class was funny. I mean, did he even apologize when he went after her and she was crying?

And then the "Claire, shut up"

crap. I was like "umm, that is not cool." She should have totally kicked him in the nuts. Flyboy or not, he's an asshole who thinks it fun to tease Claire about something that can get her locked away. All because he thinks she should be herself. He's just really unlikeable to me.

Ha! I didn't notice the guy was driving Claire's car. I'll have to go back and look again.

[septembergrrl.livejournal.com]

You're right, not being oversensitive -- Heroes is a pretty sexist show for 2007. (Look at the cast photos; two women, about ten men.) I especially resent Candace being killed off because the last female character who used her power to similarly selfish ends, Eden, *also* got snuffed. Niki and Claire are both more victim than hero far too often. I'm still watching because it's well done, but given the casting on TV this season, it really feels like someone has decided genre shows should not have female leads. Maybe Buffy was our one shot.

It's always one step forward, two steps back, it seems.

[goddessleila.livejournal.com]

On one hand, I totally agree with you about most of your Heroes points- especially on how easily Claire gave in to West upon finding out he had a power, that creeped me out hardcore as well- but I did want to add something about Candice (whose real name is Betty, if I remember correctly.)

Much like "meteor mutations" on Smallville, people's abilities often seem to function as a sort of monkey's paw for their inner selves and deepest desires. Claire's a teenager who probably thought of herself as immortal- and now she very possibly is. Micah liked computers, so he interfaces with them. DL needed to escape, so he could walk through walls. Niki felt powerless, and so grew superstrong. Eden had an abusive family and was too terrified to speak her entire life, and so when she finally did, her words carried more impact than most. And so on, and so forth.

West, much like Nathan, probably honestly believes that he's above the rest of the human race- he's an "alien," the rest of them are "robots"- and so he, also like Nathan, flies literally above the rest of us. And Candice developed her power when she was fat, ugly, unhappy, and a total outcast in the middle of a small town that hated her, so it's hardly surprising that she developed the ability not just to become whoever she wanted- but also to screw with the heads of the people who hurt and humiliated her.

I don't know if you read the comics online or not, but if you don't, I'd recommend it. It doesn't necessarily make you like the characters more, or make a certain narrative choice any less creepy and wrong, but it definitely takes the show to a deeper level than they seem to be able to manage on-screen.

And I go back to my corner now, don't mind me...

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

The West thing bugs me partly because of all you said and partly, more shallowly, because the flying-over-the-city effects gave me flashbacks to that AWFUL, AWFUL scene in the first Superman film which is among the most painful things I have ever watched. Gah.

[sabra-n.livejournal.com]

Heroes being sexist? Shocker. (And yet I keep watching, because I'm cheap.) However:

Janice and Heidi? Gone.

Not necessarily. I think we're at least going to find out what's up with the divorces, and in a story called "Generations", do you think we'll never touch on Matt and Nathan's children?

-blue

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Well, for now they're gone. And all we get is a casual mention of their divorces/separations. We're not seeing them now, I imagine from what I've heard that we will find out what's up with the divorces, but then what? I mean, just because their children show up doesn't necessarily mean we'll see their moms.

[tinylegacies.livejournal.com]

What I haaaaate in this plotline is Claire's reaction to his behavior. He harasses her, he won't leave her alone, he acts like a jerk, he stares through her window and practically outs her in her biology class, but oh, he can fly so let's make out! And in part we're supposed to understand that this sudden connection is due to the fact that he is a "freak" like her, and therefore she's willing to forgive him and ... oh, they're kissing! Aw, isn't that cute?

See, maybe because I have a sixteen year old sister and I just watched her go through having a huge crush on a jerky guy who was five years older than her and already had a girlfriend, yet told my sister he really liked her and made out with her every chance he got, but I really didn't find fault with Claire's behavior.

I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying that I think it's good for the attitude to be perpetrated on national television, but I think it's accurate for how a teenage girl would act in a situation where they can't be the person they want to be.

Whatever West's motivations are (which I'm not even really caring about at this point), he intrigued Claire and when she found out that he was "like her", she jumped at the chance to have *someone* that she could "be herself" with.

And you know what? I'm 30 and I'm still looking for a guy I can be myself with, so I really can't condemn a teenager for feeling that way.

On the other hand - I completely agree with you about Chuck's home situation and Captain Awesome. That whole tango scene last night was freaking amazing :)

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Oh, I understand completely where Claire's coming from in hooking up with West. She wants to talk with someone like her, someone she doesn't have to hide from, and the only one she's got, Nathan, won't even give her the time of day. For all West's faults, she's grasping for him and his attentions out of desperation, but not unrealistic desperation. It's totally believable. God knows my friends in high school dated some winners, that's for damn sure.

Of course, still doesn't stop it from being creepy. It's that same bad decision that you can see a little brother or sister making and want to throttle them for, even though you know they have their reasons and you know they won't listen. It's the one they'll look back at and go, "Oh, man, why did I date that person? *headsmack*"

And I feel you on the still-looking-for-the-right-guy thing, but peeping in my windows would probably be a HUGE dealbreaker. Sometimes my desperation only goes so far. ;)

[fyrdrakken]

It's that whole thing about TV (and pop culture media in general) both reflecting and reinforcing beliefs. If enough onscreen relationships depict a man stalking and harassing a woman into a relationship she isn't interested in -- and especially if a fair number of those are shown as having "happy endings," then a lot of people IRL are going to be walking around with stalking defined as courtship on an unexamined subconscious level. (Especially young people, who haven't got the life experience yet to start basing their ideas on RL rather than on what they've seen onscreen.)

And oh God yes to your point about how it would be shown as scary or obnoxious or pathetic if it were a female character depicted as showing that level of interest in a disinterested male. The lesson being perpetuated is that if the man wants the relationship and the woman doesn't, then she should give in and they'll both be so happy -- but if she wants one and he doesn't, she needs to get the point and leave him alone. It's what the man wants that matters, and women should just give them that and somehow magically find happiness in so doing. (It's also worth pointing out the level of excuse-making on the man's behalf in het relationships, and how very far he has to go and for how long before society deems it acceptable for a woman to leave him. Cheating, maybe, unless he's very very sorry and claims he won't do it again. Physical abuse, yes, if it goes on long enough and keeps landing her in the hospital. Treating her as an indentured servant and ignoring her needs as an ongoing basis until it suits his whim to throw her a bone or claim he loves her? Just being a guy, and she should smile and forgive him. The stalker doesn't go from male lead in a romance to the villain in a thriller until the threat of physical harm enters the picture.)

[butterflykiki.livejournal.com]

Okay, yay, not just me. I mean the show is pushing West so hard, but I don't even find him physically attractive enough to get what Claire sees in him beyond "oo, freak like me."

Also? I'm even more disappointed that Hana the Hacker is dead, per the comics online, and that we haven't seen FBI chick again. The wives in questions were kind of peripheral anyway, but Hana had powers, and could have been developed *so* much more, and FBI chick (even if I can't remember her name) was cool and smart and had good chemistry with Matt. Why the heck did they have to evaporate too, like Eden, Simone, and Candace? (Not that I liked Simone or Eden that much... but still.)