This icon doesn't speak for my opinion of most of the episode, I swear.

[apocalypsos]

Okay, here's my thing.

The problem with Donna's exit -- or, okay, MY problem with Donna's exit -- is that dragging back so many of the Doctor's previous companions makes it look like twice as big a douchebag maneuver as it already is. I mean, just because it's a douchebag maneuver doesn't make it a bad plot development precisely. But look, Rose went from a girl in a shop to a capable fighter with a complete family and a Doctor of her own. Martha went from random med student to member of UNIT and Torchwood. Mickey went from wimp to kickass. So many of these companions came out of their relationship with the Doctor stronger. Maybe not perfect, mind you, and Darvos did have a point about what they're all willing to do now, but STILL.

What does Donna get out of her relationship with the Doctor?

1. Two years worth of memory loss.
2. Her mom will lay off. Hopefully.
3. The possibility of her brain exploding if her memories of the Doctor ever get triggered, which means -- I can only imagine -- that if she ever has to go to get a strange mole tested or ends up pregnant or develops a tapeworm or something, nobody had better politely ask upon her arrival home, "Oh, what did the doctor say?" unless they want to roast marshmallows where her head used to be.

So essentially, everybody gets a happy ending but Donna. (EDIT: Okay, and the Doctor, but how often does he get a happy ending?)

That SUCKS.

And yeah, okay, not everybody can have a happy ending. I get that. I GET THAT. But that doesn't stop it from pretty much being my least favorite New Who moment. And I didn't watch half of last season, I hated it so much.

On the other hand:

1. Mickey and Jack! Mickey on TW! I might actually have to catch up with TW for Mickey. (Yeah, I know -- canon slash, Jack/Ianto, Tosh and Owen, blah blah. I'm still more interested in seeing the former wibbling computer geek kicking ass and taking names.)
2. All of the companions flying the TARDIS. That was bunches of fun.
3. I may be cackling a little at the prospect of the Ten/Rose wank that'll inevitably turn up on FW now. And I might be a little amused that yeah, Rose gets to spend the rest of her life with Ten, but it's a genocidal half-human Ten who fell off the back of a truck. HEEEEEE.

Comments

[cacklebang.livejournal.com]

TEN DOLLARS SAYS JACK BANGS MICKEY.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I'LL PAY TWENTY!

... OH, WAIT, YOU WANT TO MAKE BETS, NOT POOL OUR CASH.

[cacklebang.livejournal.com]

I CAN DO THAT.

O MAN I HOPE MICKEY'S AU BOYFRIEND THAT LOOKS LIKE KAYNE WON'T FIND OUT.

[sabotabby]

I CAN'T WAIT FOR IT.

BUT POOR IANTO. HE'LL HAVE TO HOOK UP WITH MICKEY'S AU BOYFRIEND.

[nyoka.livejournal.com]

I cannot wait for the Jack/Mickey snark on TW. It's gonna be hilarious. \o/

[rani23.livejournal.com]

it's a genocidal half-human Ten who fell off the back of a truck.

FTW! :)

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I think I want an icon of the kiss that says (if possible), "I love you, genocidal half-human Ten who fell off the back of a truck!" 'Cause I'm THAT asshat. ;)

[vivien]

I'm really, really disappointed with Donna's ending. I mean, REALLY disappointed.

[lavenderfrost.livejournal.com]

I genuinely would rather have seen her actually *die* than go through this - back to a shallow life where she feels worthless and has no idea what she's capable of.

That last scene where he said goodbye and she blew him off just made me want to hunt RTD down and grind him into hamburger. -_-;;

[crediniaeth.livejournal.com]

I just want to say that I agree with every single thing you said here. I am FUMING right now. At this point, Steven Moffat can take over any time, that's how much I am OVER RTD.

[lavenderfrost.livejournal.com]

Thing is - I had no serious problem with RTD before this. Yeah, I was mildly annoyed with the s2 not-exactly-subtle Doc/Rose canon 'shipping, but I could handle it because we all do our share of shipping, if only in our heads. What happened with Donna was Not Cool, though. Even worse than the short shrift that Martha got in s3 - at least she kept SOMETHING from her experiences.

Donna dying would have been better, because at least she'd have died with some idea of her own worth and some of the greatest memories in the universe.

Overall, I still love DW, but damn RTD to the Void for that b/s, man. Just...to hell with him.

[crediniaeth.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. Nothing that Rusty's done up to this has ruffled my feathers this much. For the S2 finale, I wanted to kick him in the shins. Right now, I want to break his legs.

And I never get angry. It takes A LOT to make me angry, and I'm just so... *pulls out hair in frustration*

[lavenderfrost.livejournal.com]

I was working on a corny little sentimental!happy vid for s4 to show how much good Donna's done for the Doctor and vice-versa before this. Now, I don't think I'll have the heart to finish it. ;_;

I've been Joss-ed, man - knowing how it ends for Donna kinda ruins it for me.

[crediniaeth.livejournal.com]

...and I was just commenting to my flist earlier this week how I considered S4 to be my favorite season because of the Awesomeness Of Donna and what a perfect compliment she was to The Doctor, even moreso than Martha.

I just can't fathom what drug Rusty was on when he wrote that utter and complete shite. And just knowing that there's other people who are just as incensed as I am makes it just the slightest bit better. :s

[lavenderfrost.livejournal.com]

I know! Discounting the end of the finale, Donna's been the Greatest Companion Ever. At least, for me. She was just what he needed, and the season was just amazing from a story point of view. It really was the essence of what's been so AWESOME about this show.

I tried to be more calm and thoughtful in my ep-reaction post on my lj and even managed to meta a bit, but the overriding thought has been "WTF?!"

[crediniaeth.livejournal.com]

You were much more composed than I am at the moment. Kudos. :)

I remember that I was one of the few out of my entire flist that was thrilled when it was announced that Donna was coming back. I was annoyed with her in Runaway Bride slightly but she made up for it because she stood up for herself and refused him. Yes, S4 made her regret that decision, but she wasn't Rose, The Doctor's Siamese Twin.

And she never was. She was her own person with her own thought and feelings and views about the world around her, and The Doctor just amplified all those good things and made her better. No one, not even in fiction or teleplays, should ever have to revert to something you don't like.

Hmm... sounds like I'm getting rational, yeah? ;)

[lavenderfrost.livejournal.com]

Heh. Thanks. That composure was seriously fought for - I'll tell you that.

I loved Donna in Runaway Bride, honestly. She was oblivious and obnoxious and her focus was pretty narrow at that time with worries about her wedding and all, but that's US. She's a NORMAL, flawed human being, dammit. For all that she's been the most special companion yet, she's also been the one that's most like us viewers. (Or at least, I feel like she's the most like me.)

[crediniaeth.livejournal.com]

Sure! We're not all medical students or omnisexual time agents or council estate kids searching for a better life, but Donna was... *flails*

Donna. A little older, a little more normal. A LOT more fantastic. :)

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I didn't have a problem with RTD before this either. AND THEN. *fumes*

[lavenderfrost.livejournal.com]

We need fic, man. Fic that'll get it RIGHT.

Maybe Donna could have not!died the way Rose did - written off as dead and having to start over somewhere far away and still keep her memories and experiences. It'd be suitably painful, but it wouldn't DESTROY them and Ten would know that in the end, she'd be alright and remember him, and maybe they'd even see each other again. Rose came back, why can't she?

*fistclench*

RTD, it's called character 'development' for a reason

[tully-argyle.livejournal.com]

Whether or not their decisions and choices in life affect one or one million, whether they cross the road or don't, turn left or turn right or even stay home, conscious choice should have lasting consequences.

It's a cheat if they aren't remembered, or if the development of the character is reversed. It's not enough to those invested in the entertainment and the journey, that others know of the action and can never speak of it. And it's very disrespectful to your own creation to cheat their development that way. Oh sure, they're fictional, not real, what does it hurt? Plenty.

Death is more often a better fate to a fictional character than never knowing what they did. It just flies against choice and consequence, and living with choices, good bad or never made. Even dying abruptly, true form never realized, or having deeds live only in the memory of those left behind, are better fates than the one I saw tonight. Especially after a 13 episode investment and a refreshingly mature and harder edged Companion than you'd yet written.

Poor form, sir. Poor form.

In 'Turn Left', Donna had the opportunity to go back and undo a fateful decision, influenced by a malevolent force, and set things right. She died in one form to do it, but she was able to remember doing it, and what it fixed.

Mere episodes later, the malevolent force of Russell T. Davies sends her down another turn, and rewrites her reality, but the free will part, the *knowing* part, is gone.

That's just ugly.

Re: RTD, it's called character 'development' for a reason

[secretbutterfly.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY.

[girl-wonder.livejournal.com]

Can I say that I agree with everything? And also that, yeah, it made him look like a douche and a half, especially because she was saying that she would rather keep the memories.

[smallship1.livejournal.com]

I think you're missing the point. As far as RTD is concerned, this *was* a happy ending. For him there really is nothing better than being a normal human being living on Earth watching telly and eating chips, and if you've got memories of doing great things, seeing wonders, fighting monsters and so on that might make you regret being where you are, then snap, get rid of them.

I've been saying for some time that RTD hates the Doctor, regards him as a horrible intrusion of drama and craziness into the wonderful peaceful little lives of ordinary folk. From Clive's line in "Rose" about death being his constant companion (something you could say of any surgeon or fireman, for instance, if you wanted to) right up to this point where his very thoughts are toxic to Donna, the message has been the same. This man is dangerous. Stay away.

More wibblings on this episode over in mine if you're interested. But no, I think RTD thinks he's wrapped it all up nicely for everyone except the Doctor. And I don't think the flash of the ring was anything more than an attempt to fuel speculation. I don't think Donna will be back.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

As far as RTD is concerned, this *was* a happy ending.

No, I get that. The problem it, it isn't as far as pretty much everybody else is concerned. In RTD's douchey little mind, it's better that she doesn't know. Never mind that that was the happiest she's ever been, or that it meant something wonderful to her, or that even with how much it meant to hear she STILL understood that the Doctor was a flawed individual and the universe could be a painful place that just made a person want to go home sometimes. That attitude has Rose and Martha beat by a mile.

Donna's idea of a happy ending would have been to keep the memories and die with the Doctor. She even said as much. Even if that was next week, she still would have been happy, dying or not.

[thexpuzzler.livejournal.com]

I think what pissed me off most about the Donna bit was that he didn't leave her a choice. He took her decision away from her, and isn't that hypocritical of him, who always says people should be able to decide their own future? Donna clearly didn't want to go back. She begged him to rather let her die than make her go back to the way she was.

And he went over her head and decided for her, because he didn't want her to die. Well, I've always thought dying, compared to some other things, isn't always so bad. I have no idea why the Doctor doesn't understand that sometimes, dying is the better option. And Donna had clearly made her decision.

[tully-argyle.livejournal.com]

Exactly! Well said...

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

The problem with Donna's exit -- or, okay, MY problem with Donna's exit -- is that dragging back so many of the Doctor's previous companions makes it look like twice as big a douchebag maneuver as it already is.

That's definitely true.