La, la, la ...

[apocalypsos]

YAY SHOW YOU'RE BACK NEVER LEAVE AGAIN.

Ahem.

Thoughts by bullet point:

-- Oh, the hugging. They can do that all they want. \o/

-- HAHAHAHA, "You were not invited." *chokesplorfles* Although now I want blind threesome sex.

-- I rewatched and that's definitely Ruby in Sam's hotel room. I don't think they're fucking, though. She's in a tank top and underwear and she's standing right there when they knock. Sam might not have known they were coming, but I got the impression Ruby did. And all she had to do (if you consider she was probably just wearing the tank top) is strip off her jeans and wait.

I'm not sure I'm totally against them fucking, though. I know the consent issues bother some people and I get it, but ... I don't know. Maybe writing SPN fanfic has screwed up my brain. It's certainly a viable option, right? *hands in air*

-- That felt so much better than season three, although the "Last season on ..." clips were a bit winceworthy. I've been thinking a lot lately about the misogyny stuff, and it occurred to me that what bothered me most about the women issues wasn't that they were there at all. They've always been there in some way or another. But last season it just went from the writers letting those issues through in the storyline to the writers turning Sam and Dean into mouthpieces. Ugh. I don't even want to think about it right now when I'm still floating off the high off watching the premiere. Bah.

-- I have no problem with going into the Christianity aspects of the storyline, especially considering we've already been touching base with the Hell side of it on a regular basis since season one. Sure, drag in the angels. This'll be awesome. (Also, Castiel is yummy. Ahem.)

Mostly I'm just flaily. And I've decided to avoid episode reactions as much as I can bring myself to this season just because ... well, I just want to try it and see if I have an easier time of it this season.

Comments

[winterweathered.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I'm totally against them fucking, though.

Me neither, though if they are, I need someone to at least MENTION the consent issues. Or whatever. And then we can get to the hot demon sex.

[phaballa.livejournal.com]

Hey now, Castiel's body belongs to a very devout man!

...oooh, oh no, I wonder if it will go away since Dean and Bobby shot the body up? That would suck.

[suaine.livejournal.com]

Nah, Cassiel's an angel, he can fix bodies and stuff. I would bet he even lets the guy see out of his eyes sometimes, for shits and giggles. Hmm. Vessel/Cassiel, y/y?

I have to ask.

[seferin.livejournal.com]

Why presume its Christianity?

I have no problem with going into the Christianity aspects of the storyline, especially considering we've already been touching base with the Hell side of it on a regular basis since season one. Sure, drag in the angels. This'll be awesome.

1. Why presume they're Christian Angels?
2. Given the Jewish version of the afterlife which often features a period of reflection and/or punishment with a severity determined by how they lived, its possible is a Judaic angel. Else why have Dean stay dead at all? The four month bit could just as simply as Dean being punished for the deal, and then given parole for time served. Granted, Judaism doesn't feature resurrections, but considering Angels are messengers, and the whole range of religious pantheons featured, why not presume Muslim or Eastern mythology?

Re: I have to ask.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Why presume its Christianity?

Popularity contest, mostly. Could it be Judaism, Muslim, Eastern mythology, whatever? Sure. Is it? Probably not. It's an American TV show on a low-rated network. Odds are massive they're focusing on Christianity. (Alas. Le sigh.)

I apologize.

[seferin.livejournal.com]

Reflex, I've been told I was going to hell once already for being a Heathen Jew.

Re: I apologize.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

*sigh* People are really fucking classy, aren't they?

Yep.

[seferin.livejournal.com]

To be fair, I know a lot of Christians, and most of them are nice people. Its always the vocal minorities which screw things up.

Re: I have to ask.

[dissident.livejournal.com]

Maybe a better term would have been "Judeo-Christian", on the part of the OP.

I think the point is that Christianity and its' eastern counterparts are what normally spring to mind for the Western masses when God and the concept of angels, etc come into mention.

I apologized for jumping...

[seferin.livejournal.com]

but Judeo-Christian is an Oxymoron. Two different sets of beliefs, of teachings, of ways of defining laws and justice.

Re: I have to ask.

[porntestpilot.livejournal.com]

I was told that it is most likely based on an angel that served as the mediator that delivered the prayers of the Jews people to heaven. However, I will need to see more of the season to really see what they are basing this on.

However since the majority of the rituals they use in the show are based on Catholicism, it's not a bad guess that it is a Christian Angel. Most Angels were in Judaism first though, right?

Sort of.

[seferin.livejournal.com]

In Judaism, they were rarely named, except in mystical texts. They, whoever they were, didn't want confusion between the message and the messenger.

[snellios.livejournal.com]

Ohhhh, i thought she said "who said you weren't invited", which is a lot more interesting :[

[snellios.livejournal.com]

Ohhhh, i remember "You're invited too, grumpy!" and then Dean replies with that. HAHA cute cute

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Pamela: (to Sam) "You're invited, too, grumpy."
Dean: (to Sam) "You were not invited!"

Heeee. :)

[snellios.livejournal.com]

LLMAO imagine if it was actually:

Pamela: (to Sam) "You're invited, too, grumpy."
Dean: (to PAMELA) "You were NOT invited!"

~~

[ou-peachus.livejournal.com]

I am totally taking that!

here: http://ou-peachus.livejournal.com/26628.html#cutid1

yes, that should be canon. Make it so.

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

Sure you'll have an easier time of it. Dean's only hit one woman so far, instead of say, three!

[astaria51.livejournal.com]

As someone who WAS bothered by the misogyny of last season, Dean hitting women was never my issue, personally.

He hit a demon. It happened to be possessing a female. How many demons possessing men did he hit, or shoot, or kill last season? When he thought Castiel was a demon, he stabbed him in the chest.

If Dean didn't hurt females who were threats, he'd be stupid, not a feminist. I don't want Dean to be a "gentleman", I don't need him to be chivalrous. I want him to be the hunter he is...but I also want him to not say flat-out that women are bitches and whores.

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

It happened to be possessing a female.

Of course, because no writer ever does anything conscious or subconsciously.

How many demons possessing men did he hit, or shoot, or kill last season?

Yeah no, the point with last season was the misogynistic slurs moreso than the violence. So tell me, how many male demons did he insult using their gender or sexuality? I didn't see him insulting any black threats by calling them "niggers", did you?

If Dean didn't hurt females who were threats

You said it yourself - he's hurting the females, not the demons. He's attacking their bodies, not their being, not the demon inside them. You just pointed out the biggest problem with this whole thing, and I thank you for it. Because if people like you can see it, then it must be pretty fucking obvious.

Nevermind the fact that the demons in the diner were not a threat at all. Difference between scared and dangerous, as stated explicitly when the boys exited the diner.

I don't want Dean to be a "gentleman"

Neither do I, but there's a difference between a wife beater and someone who is not a gentleman. You're arguing a false dichotomy, and anyway, we covered this last season.

but I also want him to not say flat-out that women are bitches and whores.

Then maybe you need to stop enabling crappy writing by making false-gender stereotype excuses for lazy TV producers. Sorry honey, you can't have your cake and eat it too in this instance.

[astaria51.livejournal.com]

Hi. Half your argument centers around misogyny re: female-based pronouns, the words used about women, and the way women are portrayed.

So, while we're on the subject of misogynists, please don't assume you know anything about my intelligence (Because if people like you can see it, then it must be pretty fucking obvious) or refer to me by infantilizing nicknames (Sorry, honey), especially sarcastically.

You don't know me. You aren't my friend. You aren't an expert on feminist theory (at least, I hope not). You're someone whose opinion I stumbled on, on a friend's blog. You watch the same show I do. That's all. You don't get to talk down to me because I offended you by having a differing opinion.

So I'm sorry, because a discussion that might have been productive, persuasive or interesting has been ended right now by your completely childish attitude and derogatory remarks.

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

Your indignance is cute, but you're still missing the point.

You didn't offend me because your opinion was different. You offended me because the only thing more offensive than misogyny itself is people making excuses for it. And anyone that isn't offended by such a thing has something very fucking wrong with their moral compass, and they don't get slack cut for them.

In conclusion, I'm sorry you think people are on the internet for your benefit, to educate you and persuade you and be interesting to convince you of something which is a hard fact of reality, really, I am. Because you'd be much less offensive if you were human enough to suck it up and educate yourself on the fucking matters in your own time.

[lunamorgan.livejournal.com]

I think I should point out, since you yourself don't seem to have noticed, that you in fact agree with astaria51 that Dean's behavior is misogynistic. What she pointed out is that, rather than being due to his willingness to hit DEMONS (which makes him a demon hunter) it is Dean's open and consistent use of derogatory and hate filled anti-woman language that makes him a misogynist.

This is a fact that, in your original reply, you point out you are in agreement with, "Yeah no, the point with last season was the misogynistic slurs moreso than the violence. So tell me, how many male demons did he insult using their gender or sexuality? I didn't see him insulting any black threats by calling them "niggers", did you?" but due to your knee jerk reaction to be questioned on your original comment, you fail to notice. At no point in her original comment does she state that Dean is not acting inappropriately when he verbally abuses women. Try reading what she said again, "As someone who WAS bothered by the misogyny of last season, Dean hitting women was never my issue, personally.

He hit a demon. It happened to be possessing a female. How many demons possessing men did he hit, or shoot, or kill last season? When he thought Castiel was a demon, he stabbed him in the chest.

If Dean didn't hurt females who were threats, he'd be stupid, not a feminist. I don't want Dean to be a "gentleman", I don't need him to be chivalrous. I want him to be the hunter he is...but I also want him to not say flat-out that women are bitches and whores."

Essentially, what she said is that hitting a demon, regardless of the body it is possessing, is hitting a demon. But calling a woman a bitch is no longer ABOUT the demon, but about women because he is relating the possessed body with the possessing demon and is no longer attacking the demon itself, as a genderless evil entity, but the human being, the woman, that it is using as a shell.

In conclusion, I'm sorry you think that to be a feminist or at all enlightened, a woman must by default agree with you. I find it ridiculous that someone can say to you, "I believe that ---- is a misogynist, but I think it is his choice to treat women badly that makes him one, not his choice to fight demons," and you can honestly find the gall to respond with things such as, "Because if people like you can see it, then it must be pretty fucking obvious. ," and, "Sorry honey, you can't have your cake and eat it too in this instance.," and Your indignance is cute, but you're still missing the point.," which are honestly some of the most woman-hating things I have heard come from any real life person in quite some time. I mean, I suppose being a former women's studies major at an all female collage may have colored the fact that I assume women know better than to toot their own horn with regard to their knowledge of feminist diatribe while simultaneously using some of the most obvious and well known verbal tools of female oppression, but I really do think that this kind of attack is highly uncalled for given the mere opening for discussion of the subject of WHAT makes a show or character anti-female.

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

I don't give a shit if they agree with me or not, whether they have a vagina or a cock. What, do you think this is some kind of fucking popularity contest or something?

which are honestly some of the most woman-hating things I have heard come from any real life person in quite some time.

Yes, because obviously, disagreeing with a woman on the internet is the same as hating all women on the planet simply because they are women. I mean, jeeze, who the fuck could argue with that logic? No holes there at all.

And if that's even half-true, you lead a very privileged and sheltered life. But oh wait...

I assume women know better than to toot their own horn

Clearly, you don't. Seriously, an all-women college? Wow, if only one of those fucking existed in my country. How sweet that would fucking be. Oh, and you're only a former women's studies major? Oh goodie for you! No horn-tooting going on there.

while simultaneously using some of the most obvious and well known verbal tools of female oppression

Oh, you mean like lauding education privileges over someone who threatens them? Or passive-aggressivity? Could you make this any fucking easier for me, really?

[budclare.livejournal.com]

Do you really think it's possible to be as angry as you are now and not lose perspective? Or do you actually think that you're the only person in the entire world who's capable of being both livid and rational at the same time?

Even when you have perfectly valid reasons for being angry, it still impairs your judgment. Really. A lot.

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

This? Is not angry. Not by a mile, for either myself or anyone else I've had the luck of witnessing actually getting angry in the real world, rather than dealing with idiots over the internet. And do you think, after reading over anything I've posted, that I give two fucks about rationality? Really?

[thefragyle.livejournal.com]

I'll give you that. You've made it perfectly clear that you do not, in fact, give two fucks about being rational.

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

*applause*

[lunamorgan.livejournal.com]

<3

[lunamorgan.livejournal.com]

You're right, I whole-heartedly agree. Rationality is not your stong point.

[foenix.livejournal.com]

I quite enjoyed the premiere, but I miss original flavour Ruby. Good way to reveal the new one, though.

[dissident.livejournal.com]

I agree, even though I didn't care much for KC as an actress, I liked the way she portrayed the character better. This new actress doesn't appear to have ever seen any past SPN episodes featuring Ruby.

[quicksylver-btg.livejournal.com]

I loved how they are working towards the good vs. evil thing, with Sammy slowly going darkside as he uses more and more of his powers (even if he thinks it's for a good cause). Heck, it was nice to see a return of the psychic abilities after a season off, despite how much they are creepily reminiscent of Ava.

[antychan.livejournal.com]

But last season it just went from the writers letting those issues through in the storyline to the writers turning Sam and Dean into mouthpieces. Ugh.

Like many other TV shows Supernatural does now follow the misconception that throwing around misogynist expletives makes (occasional) lazy writing or characterization gritty and real and conclusively, by default, good... even when it's not. *le sigh*

[antychan.livejournal.com]

Oh, but you know what pissed me off even more than the name-calling last season?

The fun!misogyny in "Red Sky At Morning": Hot Young Guy Gets Molested By Deluded Old Chick. The Nation Cringes. It's Supposed To Be Hilarious. (TM). I was quite disgusted, and not by Ellen Geer (who I think was very beautiful in fact).

[ulkis.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I'm totally against them fucking, though. I know the consent issues bother some people and I get it, but ... I don't know. Maybe writing SPN fanfic has screwed up my brain. It's certainly a viable option, right? *hands in air*

I second this. Hey, technically Angel and Spike were dead bodies and Buffy was doing them so maybe something like that could work for Sam and Ruby too.