(no subject)

[apocalypsos]

The thing I love about this is ... well, everything. But my favorite things were the huge photos with "wedding" written on them a dozen times, the kids participating in their parents's marriage, the classrooms of children showing up to witness history.

Was all of this civil disobedience? In a way, yes. But looking back at other civil rights movements, civil obedience didn't get you half as far as disobedience did.

I love this page, because I'm seeing beautiful, happy people. You can't convince me that anything that results in this much happiness can be sinful. I'm already convinced, however, that the hateful remarks heard by protestors outside those walls are incredibly sinful.

Yesterday, I saw a minister on CNN telling the reporter that marriage shouldn't be available for homosexuals because it's defined in the Bible and marriage is a religious thing, and I damn near threw something at the screen. It's times like this I kind of wished I'd stuck with the whole journalism thing, because my next question would have been something along the lines of, "Well, sir, if that's true, then shouldn't all legal marriages be dissolved in accordance with the separation of church and state?"

Look, in thirty years, when our grandkids come racing home with social studies homework, this is a week they're going to want to ask us about. "Why couldn't gay people get married? That's so stupid. Why would anyone protest that?" Although if I'm being honest here, I kind of like the fact that they're out there protesting. As thebratqueen has pointed out, in this country I get to hear your lousy opinion whether I like it or not. And hey, later on, when everybody gets over themselves and they finally just let everybody just marry already, I'm not going to look like an asshat, the guy with the "Homosexuality is a horrible, horrible sin!" placard is.

Look at that photo scrapbook, guys. People are crying, people are smiling, people just can't stop applauding. There are lesbians in wedding dresses and gays in tuxedos. Families are there for support. Mommies and daddies brought their kids to their weddings. The line to get into City Hall is so long people were having pizza delivered. Ex-boyfriends are giving guys away to their new husbands. Couples who have been together for years, if not decades, are finally getting a chance to shout their love to the hills, regardless of what might happen come Tuesday. I'm trying to find the evil here, and I'm coming up with a big nothing.

Sorry for the ramble, it's just ... I spent yesterday at the Holocaust Museum. After seeing all that, I didn't need to come home to see pictures of protestors standing outside San Fran's city hall. It's spoiled and stupid and has far too many parallels to shit I saw yesterday in that museum.

Okay, ramble over. :)

Comments

[akacat]

shouldn't all legal marriages be dissolved in accordance with the separation of church and state?

Please, for the love of religious freedom, don't ask him/them that. Because:

1 - the answer will always be along the lines of 'this country was founded by Christians and is blessed by God' yadda yadda gag me with a non-historically-accurate spoon.

b - it will remind them that 'the country has strayed' and by God, there are a lot of things that need setting right.

I much prefer the arguments that if gays are restricted to civil unions (in the few states where they're lucky enough to get that much) then entertainment celebrities and people who've been divorced have the same restriction.

[glitterdemon.livejournal.com]

Civil disobedience is how civil rights won out in the Suffrage Movement and the Civil Rights Movement, and I truly believe that it's going to be a vital tool in the Gay Marriage Movement, if the SF weddings are any indication. It's not even something that needs to be defended.

As for the rest, yeah, rock the fuck on. :)

Re:

[frogmajick.livejournal.com]

Your icon makes me weepy. I love it.

Re:

[glitterdemon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it makes me a little weepy, too. Thank you. :)

[perch-and-creep.livejournal.com]

Okay, my biggest, biggest problem with the argument against gay marriages is when people trot out the bible. Hello! Separation of church and state. Seperation! (spelling)

Okay, if you're freaking against it then have a real case...oh wait. If you're against it and you can't use the bible what does that make you look like? A fucking asshole! Gee.

Okay, marriage is about love. Is about two people willing to say, "hey let's get a more permanent arrangement going on, let's make it really hard, or harder than a break up to leave each other, because I feel really good about you, good enough to let everyone know that I want to be exclusive with you, that I only want you..."

Love is Love is Love is Love is Love is Love.

Anything between two consenting adults is allowed (with exceptions for common sense). So no, you can't marry your dog, your corpse, your tree, your marijuana, your thirteen year old cousin, (unless you're a popular or powerful person who can get away with it and even then....)but you better damn well be able to marry your lesbian/gay partner!

Re:

[aberrantangels]

Anything between two consenting adults is allowed (with exceptions for common sense).

Exactly. I just wish to hell I knew what about that is so hard for them to understand.

[ktmobile.livejournal.com]

Your post, coupled with that website almost made me start crying. I totally, totally agree.

[altoidsaddict.livejournal.com]

When viewed in the context of the laws of the United States, going back before the Revolution, going back to the colonies, going even all the way back to the Puritans - marriage was ALWAYS a civil contract. Documents are very, very clear on that. Yes, religious figures could marry people - but you were not officially married unless a) you had filed with the government or b) the government determined that you had lived together in a marital relationship for a defined period of time. This was an absolute, since the government felt they should be able to dissolve marriages where need be, and the church felt the same. Where marriages have been prohibited (the miscegenation laws carried a hundred years after the founding of the colonies, polygamy outlawed as a condition of Utah slavery, disallowing slave marriages, and gays not being allowed to marry), it's been the state - not religious groups - having the authority to do so, and it's been the state using various reasons - economic necessity, property lines, voting imbalances - having non-religious reasons to do so. Marriage, in the whole character of the United States and the American Colonies, is a civil contract which no religion can tear asunder.

To suggest that religion has any business telling people who they can and cannot marry over and above governmental mandates and rulings (like, oh, the Supreme Court)... is, simply put, anti-American and runs against the values of every single group that had anything to do with founding this country. If you're going to outlaw gay marriage, find a better reason than "God told me it was bad." But when you consider the higher tax dollars brought in, filing fees, decreased burden on the health insurance system, and pooled resources, there is no economic reason to disallow gay marriage - and plenty of economic reasons to alow it. Inheritance laws are virtually unaffected. They can't cast any more votes per household than a straight marriage. And they aren't property. Those are the big reasons why marriages of any kind have been disallowed in the government - and gay marriage fits none of these.

Re:

[frogmajick.livejournal.com]

I linked this in my LJ. You did a fantastic job simplifying the issue, getting to the heart of the problem. :applause:

[sabotabby]

::sniffs::

::applauds::

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

I really do look forward to the time when the grandkids will say "Why did they act that way towards gay people?" in the same way I'm reasonably certain my neices (none older than 3 at the moment) will one day scratch their heads and wonder why anybody ever thought that they shouldn't be allowed to play sports or hold jobs.

What's happening in SF is amazing. And if there is going to be civil disobediance I love that it's this, this act of people doing nothing more than declaring their love and commitment for each other with people rushing in to help. It gives me hope. Or at least more hope than I had in my pessimistic post the other day ;)

[kimera.livejournal.com]

Wow, those pictures are just... really fucking beautiful.

Now I'm feeling the way I felt when they *finally* announced the changes to the Canadian Charter all over again. Elated that love has finally *won*, proud of those who made the right decision, and still a little sad that it had to take this long.