Aaaaand I finally got to watch the second half of the episode ...

[apocalypsos]

... after watching the first half as soon as I walked in the front door because I simply couldn't resist, so now I am totally caught up.

EPIC FUCKING WIN ALL AROUND.

A few superficial things:

-- Lucifer!Sam was incredibly hot. Mmmm.
-- There is nothing about snarky-future!Castiel I don't find adorable.
-- The end of the world, and future!Dean still can't find a lozenge. Heh.
-- Chuuuuuuuck! Aw, he's in inventory.

Okay, now on to more serious things:

I still don't blame Dean one bit for turning down Michael. I haven't from the very beginning, because the angels have yet to prove that they're any more truthful or interested in saving humanity than Lucifer and his minions are. Let's be honest here. The angels are equally as responsible for the apocalypse as the demons are. For all that Dean and Sam blame themselves, they've been twisted and manipulated down this path by both sides for over twenty-five years now. Hell, even Castiel isn't totally to blame for his part in this (maybe less so, as Dean and Sam being human have free will -- thus, manipulating them means steering them towards picking choices rather than ordering them to do so -- while Castiel standing up to Chuck's archangel in the finale last year was the first overt step towards free will he took).

I'm not convinced that that future is set any more than I'm convinced what Michael and Zachariah and the others have planned isn't actually worse than the future we saw. Out of everything that's been said this season by Lucifer, can we honestly deny any of it as being false? His story of his fall tonight rings true, and to be honest, from his point of view I actually sympathize. His remark about how nothing will change the fact that everything will come down to Dean (carting Michael around or not) vs. Sam (carting Lucifer around or not) is something we've seen coming from season one. And Lucifer's been up-front about not being taken by Sam unless Sam says yes. Quite frankly, for all the "demons lie" shit we've been hearing from years, Lucifer's sort of a blatant example that it's less lying so much as it is being bluntly honest about shit you reeeeeaaaaally don't want to hear.

Speaking of Lucifer, I still find telling that he asks permission to enter Sam. Lower demons don't. Ruby didn't, Lilith didn't ... Lucifer says Sam will say yes, but he doesn't just barge his way in, which presumably someone of his power could.

Anyway, among other things about that vision I don't believe, that Castiel will never find God is a major one. Like I've said before, they gave us a gun-on-the-mantelpiece with the amulet, I highly doubt we're never going to see it fire. I just have a really hard time buying any mind-trip out of the same angel that brought us Smith and Wesson starring in Office Space With Monsters and the Gilded Cheeseburger Room.

I still feel like we're going to get Michael either tricking his way into Dean or forcing his way in without consent, and being so astoundingly destructive Sam has to take in Lucifer to take him down. I would just find it amusing if we got to the end of the season and Castiel, Lucifer!Sam, and God are up against Michael!Dean and the rest of the angels, a fight during which God and Lucifer kiss and make up and Michael gets spanked.

Comments

[laughingacademy.livejournal.com]

2014!Dean apparently had no memory of being now!Dean, which he would have if there were a clear timeline between the two. Ergo, “no fate but what we make.”

I was hoping Dean would tell Zachariah, “My ‘lesson’? Let me tell you what I learned: when the going gets tough, the angels — except for Cas — puss out.”

[frogmajick.livejournal.com]

I just have a really hard time buying any mind-trip out of the same angel that brought us Smith and Wesson starring in Office Space With Monsters and the Gilded Cheeseburger Room.


THIS

[dmlpacker.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree. The entire episode, I was wondering if

a) What if Zachariah made up this entire future to trick Dean

or

b) IF MAYBE THIS ISN'T BECAUSE IT WASN'T SAMANDDEAN AND TURNED INTO LET'S-GO-TO-SEPARATE-HEMISPHERES. Which, incidentally, turned out to be the moral of the episode *claps hands*

PS I think they mentioned that since Lucifer is an Angel underneath everything(fallen though), he still needs permission like all other angels.

[svilleficrecs.livejournal.com]

" Lucifer says Sam will say yes, but he doesn't just barge his way in, which presumably someone of his power could. "

I've gotta wonder, though... even though Lucifer is mad powerful, if we assume that he's still an angel, regardless of his being cast from heaven, he's still bound by angel rules. It may just be a narrative trope, but it makes sense that lesser beings can take people against their will, but Angels, for all their power, have the limit of needing consent to inhabit a vessel. If we take the whole "humans are god's favorite children" thing at face value, it makes sense that he would install that failsafe in his angels.

[telaryn.livejournal.com]

I'm still vibrating over the fact that they had Dean learn the *right* lesson, the one we've all been screaming for him to figure out.

I also loved the way he phrased his apology and turnaround, acknowledging that yes, they're likely to get screwed by sticking together, but some things are more important than victory.

The wrong action taken for the right reasons is still the wrong action - and clearly the one thing still true for Dean in this screwed up apocalyptic reality is that anything that takes their humanity away is the wrong action

[telaryn.livejournal.com]

Oh, and continuing the theme of Lucifer as jilted emo boyfriend?

I still maintain they've read your fic. *g*

[pandorablu.livejournal.com]

I just have a really hard time buying any mind-trip out of the same angel that brought us Smith and Wesson starring in Office Space With Monsters and the Gilded Cheeseburger Room.

A HUNDRED MILLION TIMES THIS.

I went along for the ride to get to leisuresuit(erm I mean Lucifer)!Sam but the whole time I didn't trust it. ESPECIALLY not when Lucifer!Sam said that the two of them will always get to that point.

But at this point, IDK, I'm getting TIRED of Zachariah's tactics. Don't get me wrong, I love doing the Time Warp as much as the next girl.... but can't SOMEONE come up with a different tactic? The more you insist, the more a Winchester digs their heels in, you'd think the angels would have figured this out by now...

[anitac588.livejournal.com]

Speaking of Lucifer, I still find telling that he asks permission to enter Sam. Lower demons don't. Ruby didn't, Lilith didn't ... Lucifer says Sam will say yes, but he doesn't just barge his way in, which presumably someone of his power could.
No idea why, but this paragraph struck me as a very filthy porn prompt.

[hippiechiq.livejournal.com]

Lucifer!Sam was incredibly hot. Holy unholiness, Batman, that suit. And the sympathy-for-the-devil puppy dog eyes. Unf.

This season. Just loving this season.

[hippiechiq.livejournal.com]

Oh, and also: President Palin. Nice dystopian touch there.

I agree with some of the others...

[jazzminarino.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to let you know that I purposefully load your page on Thursday nights just to read about SPN. Just thought you'd like an ego fluff!

Superficial reaction: Sam has the nicest shoulders I have seen on a man in years. And woot to Prophet!Chuck coming into play!

Deeper thoughts: Firstly, Lucifer isn't a demon, per se. He's an angel tossed on the wrong side. I used to watch Reaper as well, it's been maintained that Lucifer continues to get a bad rep. Yeah, Satan, yeah, Devil, blahcakes. He was tossed from heaven because he loved God too much. Poor dude.

Though I agree Sam and Dean should remain their respective human (or whatever) selves and not take in Michael and Lucifer. Because, then it would be Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki NOT playing Dean and Sam. I'm sure they're terrific actors (I know they are), but I don't want to see them in SPN in anything else besides Sam and Dean. If Kripke pulls a Whedon and makes Dean/Sam into Michael/Lucifer like Fred into Illyria, that will make me very sad. Great TV, sure, but still sad nonetheless.

From the previews, I am VERY glad that Paris Hilton is not playing God. I have been wondering who (if) they would cast to play God, but I'm hoping Alanis Morrisette and then Alan Rickman can be the Metatron. Casatiel couldn't find God because She was off playing skeeball in Jersey, duh.

Zachariah annoys the shit out of me, end of story. He's like a big sky bully, and he keeps bouncing these guys into gilded rooms, back in time, forward in time, and oh yeah, STOMACH CANCER. Why trust this guy, like, ever??!!?

On a personal note, I want the rest of the Horsemen to show up. I like the Relevations they keep throwing in, which makes me feel like my reading the Bible was useful. However, I don't see how a house of wax is going to show us the apocalypse, but maybe that's why I'm not a writer. Personally, I think it's a throwback to Paris' and Jared's movie House of Wax. I can accept that better.

As a continuity person, I know Chuck was all about the inventory and what not, but wouldn't future!Chuck have seen this time-jumping!Dean? Even if 2014!Dean didn't know about now!Dean, wouldn't Chuck have known all that?

Good news, though? Apparently, the world isn't going to end in 2012. So, sorry, Mayans! SPN is right!

Okay, my brain is melty...

... I'm going to go off into something fluffier, like Fringe and melt my brain another way!