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[apocalypsos]

I think Castiel and God!Chuck have been working a long con on the boys.

-- Castiel was the one who told the boys Chuck was a "prophet of the Lord." (And to be fair, it's entirely possible Castiel and God!Chuck steered them Chuck's way on purpose. But I digress.)
-- Castiel didn't really say how he was brought back to life that first time.
-- They cut away from Castiel and Chuck at the end of "Lucifer Rising", so really, we don't know what happened after that.
-- We only have Castiel's word that the amulet glows hot in the presence of God, so the fact that it didn't when they met Chuck previously may mean nothing if Castiel was conning for the Lord.
-- Can we be entirely sure what happened with Castiel between the time he was ripped from Jimmy's body and the time he ended up back in it?
-- Funny, really, how once he got his mojo back in this episode Castiel was back to being all serene and shit. And now he's the new sheriff in town? Considering his status, which never sounded all THAT high up the roster, isn't that a bit like becoming sheriff because you just got your first merit badge in Boy Scouts? You'd have to pull some awfully big strings for that ...

I would find it infinitely hilarious if Castiel's been an inside man all this time.

Comments

[tripoli8.livejournal.com]

I actually buy the burning amulet thing, solely on the basis on the burning scythe when Dean met Death, but it would fill me with joy if this turned out to be a huge con the entire time.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

See, I buy that something glows hot around God!Chuck, but I'm not sure I buy that it's the amulet right now. I mean, obviously it didn't heat up around Chuck previously, and again we only have Castiel's word. And if he was working with God!Chuck ... well, he could tell them whatever he wants, really. :D

[emella.livejournal.com]

Dude, Guys if Chuck is God he could like totally just turn the amulet off... I mean he's GOD.

God this episode was amazing.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

That's true, too, although I'm not sure considering Death certainly wasn't able to stop his scythe from heating up in his presence and he's Death.

So maybe something DOES glow in God's presence, just not the amulet.

[emella.livejournal.com]

Oooh good point!

[clex_monkie89.livejournal.com]

I get the feeling that Death didn't really care about the scythe heating up. He was very lackadaisical about the whole thing.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Yeah ... the whole thing makes me itch to write fic. 'Cause there's a buttloads of ways this shit could have gone down.

[clex_monkie89.livejournal.com]

Five Cons God Chuck God Chuck and Castiel Didn't Pull?

[azurelunatic]

*giggling madly*

[foenix.livejournal.com]

But be careful now, because you're writing fic with God's characters.

...Does this make Chuck the ultimate Mary Sue? A writer insert character who is *literally* God.

And yes, I am (mostly) poking fun. ;)

[deepbluemermaid.livejournal.com]

I actually read the burning scythe thing as: Death made it heat up so Dean couldn't hold onto it and kill him with it. Plus he just really wanted his damn scythe back, so.

[tripoli8.livejournal.com]

See, okay. If you set up at the very beginning of your season that there's an object that will burn in the presence of god which will guide the plot of one character, and then throw that object away midseason without resolving that conflict and never mention it again, and THEN introduce another object that we *do* see burn in the presence of something on level with god, and we're supposed to infer somehow that those two events are not connected in any way, that seems like ridiculously haphazard writing. There are a ton of ways the writers could have gotten the scythe out of Dean's hand, so if it wasn't a callback for a reason, it seems designed to obscure that fact as much as possible for no reason I can think of.

I'm mean, that doesn't rule it out, but that just seems like a whole bunch of threads that they'd be slapping together because they seem cool, without anybody keeping track of whether they ever go anywhere or come from anywhere. For the story to suggest that a character is retroactively omnipotent and then ascribing every inconsistency and dropped story thread to that seems...eh. It doesn't bother me, but it doesn't impress me either.

[fyrdrakken]

I'm mean, that doesn't rule it out, but that just seems like a whole bunch of threads that they'd be slapping together because they seem cool, without anybody keeping track of whether they ever go anywhere or come from anywhere.

I have no problems with blaming it on just this, writing by the seat of the pants and losing track of various plot threads and doing things more because they seemed cool than because they made any sense at all. But then, I'm in Doctor Who fandom, and we've been so badly burned by the previous showrunner that we're shocked when the current showrunner turns out to actually know what he's doing.

[tripoli8.livejournal.com]

Ha! Oh man. I am very much looking forward to the day when I can look back on this season knowing what was Moffat's Master Plan^TM and was was just minor continuity mishaps because somebody on-set wasn't paying attention. I'm liking the odds a lot better this year, at least.

As for SPN...for all of Sera Gamble's virtues, coherent plotting is hit and miss at best, so...well, why borrow trouble.

[kijikun.livejournal.com]

*clings to Cas' feet*

[laughingacademy.livejournal.com]

dr_is_in made a great suggestion in this thread: maybe Chuck is Jesus. So he's not the distant, inscrutable Father, but another Son doing the best he can.

[elz.livejournal.com]

...that would add a whole 'nother level to his madonna/whore complex.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Oooo, that would be interesting too.

[catystorm.livejournal.com]

I was thinking that too, considering the scruff. And the Mistress Magda thing.

[emella.livejournal.com]

I kind of want this the more that I think about it...

I mean he writes books, Madonna/Whore complex... kinda fits. *shrug*

[telaryn.livejournal.com]

I went there too in the cold light of dawn. Definitely plays into the whole brothers angle.

[hiddenw.livejournal.com]

Awwww. I love Castiel's 'losing faith' arc too much that I don't want the inside man theory to be true. Although, it would be funny. But if does turn out to be true I demand a Leverage-style explanation of how things *really* went down due to Chuck and Castiel's maneuvering.

[pandorablu.livejournal.com]

did Kripke ever elude to us knowing who God was but we just didn't see it yet? I never keep up with spoiler stuff & interviews so I have no idea....

I LIKE this idea. I always appreciate a long con as long as it doesn't come out of nowhere, and with that last few minutes and the way this whole episode was framed I don't think it's a complete macguffin as of right now? And with those last few minutes it's the only thing that makes SENSE in my brain.

my problem with fully accepting it? Chuck's purpose in the narrative (uh oh, friday brain is popping out). As prophet his role makes sense. As GOD.... he turns into a giant dick in my head. I need to think about this some more before I really figure it out....

[not-sally.livejournal.com]

I think the whole 'Cas going from lowly soldier to top dog' makes perfect sense, but then again, I totally bought that reboot!Kirk should've become captain of the enterprise when he was a cadet just because he was Jim Kirk, so I might be biased.
Slightly.
In any case, Cas would be the only 'angel' (not evil, and not Gabriel, which, btw, wouldn't mind seeing him turn up back again, can't keep him down, please bring him back) to have done the free will thing right, right? so it stands to reason he's a special kinda angel (Saint patron of fangirls).

[not-sally.livejournal.com]

Oooh, also, if Cas was/had been a con-man... Damn, Sam is never gonna let dean live that down. I'll die laughing.

[lots42.livejournal.com]

What I liked about Reboot Trek is that the Powers That Be made -damned- sure even the Ensigns are super-smart bad-asses.

[lots42.livejournal.com]

I figure being a big assist in taking down the four horsemen and all sorts of monsters and -trying- to kick Lucifer's ass is qualification enough to be the big sheriff in town.

[dither-river.livejournal.com]

My theory is that Chuck wasn't always god - I'm trying to remember if Castiel met with Chuck season 5 while he had the amulet, but im too busy at this moment to trawl through the episodes.

If he hasn't been with Chuck, and Cas has had the amulet then there would have been no way to know Chuck was god. Chuck could have died in the cas vs angel stand off at the end of season 4 and no one would have known if god jumped his bones and brought Cas back.


Just a theory.

[telaryn.livejournal.com]

It's the theory that makes the whole thing work - Cas and Chuck were never actually in each other's company from the point where Cas took possession of the amulet.

[alexseanchai]

Rob Benedict's been in six Supernatural episodes. Monster/Book, Lucifer Rising, and Sympathy, Dean wore the amulet in Chuck's presence and it did not glow. Or burn or whatever Castiel said it was supposed to. Misha Collins was not in Real Ghostbusters, nobody was ever in the same scene as Rob in Swan Song, and we don't know if Castiel still had the amulet in 2014 because we never saw it. Certainly didn't see it glow.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Er. Ok, this is some brilliant frickin' fanwank. I wonder if it will occur to Sera? Or if she will just steal it from you, as you're probably on her flist.

[budclare.livejournal.com]

Assuming Chuck really is God, he genuinely didn't seem to know until right near the end of the season...which would explain his break-up with Becky, among other things. And if it was buried deeply enough that even he didn't realize who he was, then the amulet would almost certainly not have worked.