(no subject)

[apocalypsos]

I'm starting to realize that when it comes to Sin City, people's enjoyment of it depends on whether people can't get past the misogyny and the crappy dialogue, or whether they can just let it be cheesy and stupid film noir like it's supposed to be. I mean, I get the people who don't like it. But I also get that I like the pretty, I'll let the lame plot retreads slide, and Clive and Rosario making out is my new kink.

In other news, I'm so going to get the next part of 10.5 finished today if it kills me. And it just might, considering that I've already taken a nap I didn't need today, worked on editing The Monsters of Moosic even though I wanted to save it for this week before and after work, and started the XMM plotbunny that won't die. But I'll at least get another section of this movie posted to plan_9_from_lj, damn it. I swear, no more three-and-a-half hour movies for plan_9_from_lj for me. (Says the woman who's already added Titanic to my list of eligible movies. *sigh* But it's so easy.)

Comments

[shoiryu.livejournal.com]

Word about eight times over to your first paragraph. Just a movie, guys.

[beccak1961.livejournal.com]

Did you like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow? I did, but I just relaxed and went for the ride with the visuals, my family kept picking apart the plot line and blah blah. I wonder if Sin City is something similar?

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen Sky Captain yet, so I'm not sure how closely it relates. The whole thing is that while I understand the complaints about the misogyny, the plots and the dialogue, film noir is full of misogyny, repetitive plots, and lame dialogue. And as for the violence ... well, hell, with Robert Rodriguez directing, you kind of have to expect it by now.

[chichiri-no-da.livejournal.com]

>.> Hi, you don't know me... I finally crumbled and friended you yesterday. So...hi!

I think you're exactly right about Sin City. I went last night and at first I was somewhat put off by the dialogue, in a "I can't BELIEVE they just said that!" but when I realized that it was intentional (about 3 seconds later), I relaxed and just enjoyed the cheese. At that point, I started really enjoying it.

[chichiri-no-da.livejournal.com]

*an "I can't BELIEVE they just said that!" kind of way.

Finishing sentences is good XP

[dhaunea.livejournal.com]

See, the mysogonistic thing... I don't get. The only girls who weren't totally tough and ass-kicking, even in situations that would have had most MEN screaming for their mommies... were Goldie - who was murdered by someone who kicked MARV'S ass, Backy, who was just a basic wimp, and Nancy when she was TEN.

Dwight mostly just got in the way and had to get his ass saved by Miho or other girls... Nancy held up under abuse and torture. Gail remained her nastyass self even looking death and horror in the face... c'mon. I'd put money on the girls against the guys in Sin City ANY day.

... well, except for Marv. And he doesn't hit women.

[chichiri-no-da.livejournal.com]

I noticed how it always kinda came down to the guy saving the girl, but I didn't think it was mysogenistic - just... appropriate for the genre. Toss in the cheesy dialogue and everything else, and you HAVE to have that, too.

Besides, as you said, the girls were so kickass, how could you accuse anyone of mysogyny?

[dhaunea.livejournal.com]

... except that Dwight didn't save anyone (except maybe Shelley)... and instead mostly acted as bait. He continually got his ass kicked.

And even Marv got himself hit over the head by a girl - more than once even.

And Nancy, Hartigan aside, did a DAMN good job keeping her head down and making life difficult for Junior.

[chichiri-no-da.livejournal.com]

LOL, well yes. I actually was thinking more about the guy TRYING to save the girl, and being involved. Dwight, in particular, wasn't all that good at it. Though he gave it a good try, by gum XD

[dhaunea.livejournal.com]

*snrks* He did. I liked Dwight... but he liked to get in over his head, didn't he?

[chichiri-no-da.livejournal.com]

I'm amused especially by the fact that he was trying to save that one girl, and Gail kept being like "No, honey, you just stay over here where it's safe. We've got everything under control..."

[fyrdrakken]

Well, except for the whole cop-killing thing, and even Dwight didn't realize that's what Jack was until it was too late. Admittedly he came in somewhat handy in terms of disposing of the bodies and retrieving Jack's head from the Irish, though.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I can see it from the other side, because if you want to simplify it, it comes down to every woman in Sin City being a prostitute, a victim, or both. But, still, the chicks kick ass.

And Marv? Was awesome. :)

[dhaunea.livejournal.com]

*loves Marv and goes off to make Miho icons*

[blackgarden.livejournal.com]

But even over-simplifying it, the men were all psychotic killers or dumb muscle, or both. Both genders had equally unflattering and kickass portrayals.

[ltlj.livejournal.com]

I don't get the misogyny thing either. I think the society it was depicting was probably misogynistic, but the main characters not so much. Both Dwight and Marv had women friends, and for psycho killers they had damn healthy attitudes about women choosing or not choosing to have sex with them. Hartigan was respectful of his wife's decision to re-marry, he was willing for his love for Nancy to be one-sided, and to stay out of her life once he knew she was safe. There was a definite theme of 'respect for women as independent people' in the male main characters, which just doesn't add up to misogyny to me.

[dhaunea.livejournal.com]

I'd agree that the society probably was... but I think that your take on the characters is dead on.

But it's also so... twenties/forties film noir and there weren't many roles for women in those that weren't women who needed rescuing or prostitutes. It's beautifully genre...

But misogynistic? I don't see it.

and this is why film noir is not My Pet Genre!

[octopedingenue]

[badly channeling "Rosencrantz And Guildenstern Are Dead"] Well, I can do blood and lame dialogue without the misogyny, and I can do blood and misogyny without the lame dialogue. But I can't do lame dialogue and misogyny without the blood or all three concurrent or consecutive.

Prettyprettypretty movie, though.

[robyn-ma.livejournal.com]

Sin City is just Pulp Fiction one step removed towards the original source. It gets pretty much everything right, and is in its way as much of an achievement as Pulp Fiction was; the two are yin-yang pulp artifacts (one is highly verbal, the other is excessively visual) and natural companion pieces. [/movie critic]

[laughingrat.livejournal.com]

The misogyny's as bad as all that, huh? :( I'd hoped it would at least be watchable, because I'd kinda like to see it. The thing is, film noir doesn't have to be stupid and crappy. Even at its most macho, it usually had some redeeming qualities. Hell, even if it didn't have redeeming qualities, you can at least view it charitably in terms of its context. This crap they're churning out nowadays, well, that's what happens when your target demographic is teenage boys.

[dragonsinger.livejournal.com]

The misogyny in Sin City sucks, but Clive Owen is pretty.