I may not be in a good mood today.

[apocalypsos]

Study looks at why poor kids are heavy

Hey, guess what? I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say it's because a two-liter of soda and a bag of Cheetos are cheaper than a bag of grapes and a bottle of orange juice.

****

Autopsy due for Heath Ledger

Great! If they discover it wasn't suicide, does that mean I can throttle the people who couldn't call him a selfish jerk fast enough? Because the more that comes out about it, the less it looks remotely like a suicide. (No note? Naked and facedown at the foot of the bed? With a masseuse appointment? Pretty odd behavior for somebody who'd plan to be found dead.)

I just ... *sigh* The one thing that separates this particular bout of depression I'm having right now from the one I had my last two years of college is that I have yet to sit on the edge of my bed crying and staring at a bottle of pills trying to talk myself out of it. And explaining the mindset of where you are at that point to people who've never had a suicidal thought in their life is so hard.

****

The Carnation instant breakfast commercials show a woman washing a baby elephant. Clearly, if I drink Carnation instant breakfast somebody's going to let me wash a baby elephant, right?

Comments

[coolgrin.livejournal.com]

You know what irritates me about the study is that it's so fucking stupid the money could have been spent making it cheaper for these poor kind get healthier food.
Dumbasses.

The second thing breaks my heart. I hope it's not a suicide but then again is an overdose much better?

I wonder why people thing that depression can be easily snapped out of? I was so depressed when i was younger but never got to that point. I was luckythat my family noticed something was off about me.

And I would totally drink carnation breakfast stuff to wash a baby elephant. I might even eat a Klondike bar.

[callmesyd.livejournal.com]

I wonder why people thing that depression can be easily snapped out of?

Unfortunately, a large part of it is probably simply that it's called "depression". Everyone has been depressed before. Gotten a bad grade, lost a pet or another loved one, been turned down for a date.

But not everyone has been depressed. Been unable to get out of bed for weeks at a time, unable to stop crying after spilling a few drops of milk, thought of every reason in the world why ending it would be the best option after trying so, so hard to think of one reason, any reason, not to go through with it and coming up empty.

I really, really wish there was a better name for it. It's a soul-crushing condition, not something a muppet sings about during the second act of a film.

[coolgrin.livejournal.com]

Soul crushing melancholia.

[paradisacorbasi.livejournal.com]

Hey, guess what? I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say it's because a two-liter of soda and a bag of Cheetos are cheaper than a bag of grapes and a bottle of orange juice.


Nail meet head.

And they won't change the prices because then we get to spend money on gyms and pills and crap.

And yes, people who make such instant remarks about suicides are usually those who have never seriously had a suicidal thought in their lives. Otherwise they'd know that most suicidal people do think of the people they'll leave behind ...and they still can't see that their death is anything other than relieving those loved ones of the burden of dealing with the depressed person.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Honestly. I'd love to buy fruit and meat every week, but instead I'm stuck with soda and Banquet TV dinners. They'll raise the hell out of cigarette prices to nanny-state smokers out of that particular habit, but they won't do the simple move of lowering the prices on healthy food to drop the obesity stats.

[chris-walsh.livejournal.com]

And yes, people who make such instant remarks about suicides are usually those who have never seriously had a suicidal thought in their lives. Otherwise they'd know that most suicidal people do think of the people they'll leave behind ...and they still can't see that their death is anything other than relieving those loved ones of the burden of dealing with the depressed person.

Thank you. I've never been there, thank all things, but I've been there for friends who have. So I've come close as I can to understanding that dark place without myself being in that dark place.

It seems very odd, hoping that it was an appalling accident and not something worse. But the crass-talkers you and trollprincess talked about (and remember, you can't spell "crass" without "ass") almost seem to want it to be worse, so (maybe?) they can feel superior. That really bothers me.

[dawnmipb.livejournal.com]

But the crass-talkers you and trollprincess talked about (and remember, you can't spell "crass" without "ass") almost seem to want it to be worse, so (maybe?) they can feel superior. That really bothers me.

That's exactly it: the moral superiority thing. How powerful to feel superior to someone with lots of money, fame and talent! By whatever means possible.

*sigh*

From what I saw, Ledger was brilliantly alive, deeply connected to life and especially to his art. His love for his daughter was immense. I'm sure it was a mistake.

I've been in that dark hole most of my life. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[theliel.livejournal.com]

I think you'd make an excellent baby elephant washer-er.

and yha. trying to explain soul crushing "why-bother"ness to those what don't understand it is....it's like trying to explain why getting kicked full on in the junk is so much better than a nasty little glance off one of the daddy-vaults.

anyway, sucks that heath died and I hope you get a break or feel better soon.

I've a feeling it's going to be a long winter though.
(hoping that he doesn't get 6-sigma'd into oblivion)

[vivian-shaw.livejournal.com]

There's an uncrossable mental divide between people who have experienced true deep-down crushing misery like this and people who've been kind of blue when their dog died. The second lot cannot understand how the first lot would be able to see that sometimes not being seems like such a wonderful idea.

I just try avoiding the subject if possible. It's not a conversation I like to have. But I would like to wash baby elephants.

[tinylegacies.livejournal.com]

*headdesks so much at that first link*

It really is expensive to eat healthy. My roommates and I try, but some days it's easier and cheaper to make frozen pizzas than to cook a balanced meal.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I hate studies like that SO MUCH, because they always make it sound as if given a choice between two equally priced meals poor people would pick greasy fries and KFC over soup and sandwiches or grilled chicken or whatever.

[jellicle.livejournal.com]

Great! If they discover it wasn't suicide, does that mean I can throttle the people who couldn't call him a selfish jerk fast enough? Because the more that comes out about it, the less it looks remotely like a suicide. (No note? Naked and facedown at the foot of the bed? With a masseuse appointment? Pretty odd behavior for somebody who'd plan to be found dead.)


The first thought that came to my mind when I read these bit of news was that maybe he had a reaction to whatever medication he was taking - specially because of the body position and the pills scattered.

Accusing people with no real evidence - and even with evidence because seriously? depression is not so easy to control and even recognize as some may think - is just awful and sad.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I have a theory that we're going to find out that he had some unknown medical condition that had finally had enough of the sleeping pills. All clues so far indicate that whatever it was came on very suddenly.

[phillyexpat.livejournal.com]

Some places are reporting that he had pneumonia.

[dawnmipb.livejournal.com]

And a lot of sedatives act as respiratory depressants, meaning they can make it harder to breathe. The opiates are really bad for this, but other drugs can do it, too.

[silveraspen]

I'd like to read the source study to see what conclusions they actually found. I may try to track it down. In the meantime, I think washing a baby elephant would add sparkle to the day.

I'm also betting accidental overdose in Ledger's death, particularly if -- as the article indicates -- he's been having trouble sleeping and has been trying to cope with that.

Accident or intentional, it's still a tragedy.

[anashi.livejournal.com]

"And explaining the mindset of where you are at that point to people who've never had a suicidal thought in their life is so hard."

A-fucking-men. I can't tell you how happy I am that someone else expressed this. Try actually being manic depressive or severely depressed. You always feel like a burden or a selfish lout. You don't really need other people to say it.

[indiana-j.livejournal.com]

I just had someone at work saying "How could he have been depressed? He was young, good looking, rich, had a job he loved and had an adorable kid."

*wince* It doesn't matter how good looking you are or what you do for a living, depression can hit anyone. It's underneath everything and what someone would see as successful living might be more of a cage for someone. (Especially someone in the spotlight. It's hard enough to say you have depression to yourself and your family...I can't imagine having to worry about it getting sucked up by the media as well.)

[frito-kal.livejournal.com]

Hell, we had someone on our RPG list say that. Who SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.

[omimouse.livejournal.com]

"Oh I wish that I could be Richard Corey . . ."

[ladyelaine.livejournal.com]

And explaining the mindset of where you are at that point to people who've never had a suicidal thought in their life is so hard.

The only reason I probably wouldn't have been considered suicidal when I was eight years old is that I didn't know how to do it. I daydreamed about stabbing myself in the chest with a steak knife, basically.

[phillyexpat.livejournal.com]

At the Food Bank I work at , I often work on putting boxes of food together for after school programs in low income areas. The organizers take nutrition very seriously, while weighing perishability and what's actually been donated. Most of the boxes have peanut butter and jelly, tuna, canned chicken, canned ravioli, crackers or granola bars, fruit jerky, canned fruit, etc. They definitely add in fresh fruit and other perishable items when they're available. Unfortunately, they aren't always. The holiday packs we made for the kids had sugary cereals and juice boxes, with some snacks and canned soup. Healthier than nothing, but not ideal, I know. And then there's the issue of whether or not the kids live in neighborhoods where it's safe to run around in a yard. You might have seen that three DC high schoolers were shot yesterday in plain sight of police officers. Some parents are too scared to let their kids outside to play. I think they're in the minority, but it's a point.

If you look for the WIC labels (or whatever it's called outside of DC), you'll see they're few and far between--I see them on the dried beans and bulk rices mostly.

You know from my journal I feel pretty strongly about this--it's so important to me that children have access to nutritious food, three meals a day, so they can learn and grow properly. Life is hard enough--why put any child at a disadvantage?

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

And explaining the mindset of where you are at that point to people who've never had a suicidal thought in their life is so hard.

Motherfucking WORD.

[hamadryad.livejournal.com]

Been suicidal a lot, but it's been easier for the last 12 years because:

a) my guilt over leaving my kids behind trumps my desire to just not fucking BE and

b) I can usually make myself understand that if I kill myself, I won't be around to enjoy the peace.

c) Word, plus sentence and paragraph, to actual depression as opposed to "feeling down" someone mentioned downthread; when my cat was missing (and I was over-reacting), and when I think about the fact that my mom is probably not going to be around any more this summer, it is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT EMOTION from, "christ, they'd all be better off without me, I'd be better off without me, why am I burdening everyone else by sticking around?"

[shape5.livejournal.com]

Also, they are more likely to rely on school cafeteria food they can pay for in food stamps, and not the usually more expensive salad option. Also, often they don't have parents at home to cook for them, so they're eating almost only industrially prepared food.

[supernaturalfun.livejournal.com]

The whole thing is horrible - and how could we possibly hope for it to be for one reason over another ... you know? In the end the result is the same.

As for depression and suicide. I understand a bit of it and definite *YES* to the:

And explaining the mindset of where you are at that point to people who've never had a suicidal thought in their life is so hard.

When I was a younger mother and we started realizing all the trials my two little guys would have (I now have three boys, all are special needs) I sank further and further into depression, to the point where I couldn't fathom how a mother as horrible as myself could possibly take care of my boys as well as they should be taken care of. I convinced myself my boys would be better off if anyone else took care of them and my death would be a good thing ... because they wouldn't have to deal with me anymore then, at least. So I took that horrible step, convinced that those I left behind would be better off for my decision.

After intervention I realized that, ok, maybe they would be better off without me, but I was too selfish to consider leaving them behind when I wanted to see them reach their full potential. That is when I started cutting myself. To feel something - to know that physically I really was still there, in control of something.

I am now several years older with three special needs kids, have spent years getting comfortable with a bipolar diagnosis and have doctors supporting me. I still have days when I wonder if my boys would be better off without me around. I still feel like a horrible mother - but (and this is a big "but") I have support reminding me that isn't the case. Most people would never guess the bulk of my story. I chose to tell precious few folks about my kids OR about my bipolar diagnosis - and tell even fewer about both.

One of the biggest reasons I think you have to have that personal experience with suicidal thoughts or even the attempt is because it's hard to have empathy for something you have no experience about. When you talk with someone else who has skirted that edge and come back from it, you find another brother or sister in arms, another casualty of this hard world we live in - you find someone who understands a bit of your innermost struggles, your deepest hurt. And it is soooo different from speak with someone who understands, even lives with, depression alone. And the false empathy from people who haven't forced themselves to consider ending it all (some of whom just could never, really, consider it) hurts more than trying to talk with them in the first place.

OK so this is turning into a book and I didn't intend that. *hugs* and I'll say bye.
Kat

[random-serious.livejournal.com]

Hey, guess what? I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say it's because a two-liter of soda and a bag of Cheetos are cheaper than a bag of grapes and a bottle of orange juice

Yeah, you've head the nail on the head, there.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

I just ... *sigh* The one thing that separates this particular bout of depression I'm having right now from the one I had my last two years of college is that I have yet to sit on the edge of my bed crying and staring at a bottle of pills trying to talk myself out of it. And explaining the mindset of where you are at that point to people who've never had a suicidal thought in their life is so hard.

I so agree.
I didn't know people were calling him selfish. I mean, I'm hoping it was an accident - and I agree with you that everything heavily points to it - but mostly because it would make it so much easier for his daughter, later on.

[ampersand.livejournal.com]

Hey, guess what? I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say it's because a two-liter of soda and a bag of Cheetos are cheaper than a bag of grapes and a bottle of orange juice.

Amen. The grocery tried to charge me $12 for a bag of grapes the other day.

[hiddenw.livejournal.com]

Word to the word. I hate when people who have no inkling about what depression is really like talk about how suicide is weak, cowardly, selfish, stupid, etc. A person who commits suicide was living in their own personal hell obviously. They didn't make the decision lightly and did stop to consider their family and friends. But when you're in that much pain you just want to escape. You have no concept of things possibly getting better.

But people don't attempt to understand. That results in the stigma that people who are depressed or have suicidal thoughts are weak, stupid, self-centered, etc. If people would let go of that maybe the people in need would feel free to talk openly and have a support system and get on the path to recovery.

[ciara-belle.livejournal.com]

And even if it WAS suicide, can't we just feel bad for the guy anyway? That he didn't get the help he needed before it went this far? Why can't people just have some fucking compassion for their fellow humans?

The internet makes me angry.

[beanarie.livejournal.com]

I remember Andy Rooney saying something similar about Kurt Cobain back when he died. He gave some example of a guy in South America who was basically a modern-day Job as if to say, "Now there's someone who's life actually sucks and he kept going." I was disgusted. This is something that a lot of people believe. The internet just gives more people the chance to express it.

[ciara-belle.livejournal.com]

I just don't understand the internet grief pissing contests. Yes, there are important things going on in the world and yes, some things suck more. But why do people seem to think that people mourning Heath Ledger somehow makes their grief less real or less sad or less...something?

[musicjunkie47.livejournal.com]

a two-liter of soda and a bag of Cheetos are cheaper than a bag of grapes and a bottle of orange juice.

Seriously. I went to buy grapes the other day and they were $5/pound. And grapes are not light. But, of course, I have about 5 coupons for $1 off a 2-liter of Dr. Pepper (which makes it about $0.50. It is not cheap to eat healthy.

[shehasathree]

yeah, i agree with what you said (about both things) but it also really bothers me when people say things like "they weren't the type to commit suicide"/"they weren't that kind of person", as if there is actually something fundamentally different about suicidal people from everyone else. that bothers me. but at least if it was accidental it'll just be a no-one's-to-blame-type-of-tragedy. or something. i feel horrible saying it like that so i'm gonna shut up now...

[lunardreamed.livejournal.com]

You know what pisses me off about the whole "it's so selfish" angle is that high school class they have where they spend an hour telling you how selfish it is and not to do it because it is so selfish and will make all the people that love you so much feel bad and you are a selfish person if you do it. I mean, does that seem like the most effective way to deal with someone who is so depressed and self-loathing that they want to kill themselves? Real supportive. Besides, it's a pretty selfish argument to say that someone shouldn't kill themselves because it will hurt you. Part of the whole, "let's make this all about me" culture.

[theatervine.livejournal.com]

Dude, don't even get me started on this latest round of bs. Also? Carnation is made by Nestle right? If so then their track record of poor human rights is disgusting: http://www.babymilkaction.org/pages/campaign.html