From Ask Ausiello ...

[apocalypsos]

The italics are mine.

Question: As much as the female fans of Supernatural seem to hate the idea, I think that Bella and Ruby added a nice dynamic last season. Will the show's writers ever stand up to the fans and give at least one of the brothers and ongoing love interest? -- Jeff
Ausiello: Not if they value their life. And based on Eric Kripke's response to this question, I'm guessing they do. "The most dangerous job in Hollywood is to be the recurring female lead on Supernatural," Kripke laughs. "No, the formula in terms of romance that really has proven to work best for us is a girl in every port. Not that there’s not ongoing characters. But there are going to be recurring female characters threaded in and out of the story, and they will affect the storylines. But just to have them in sort of passive love interest roles is something that hasn’t really worked."

Oh, faaaaaabulous. I'm part of THAT fandom.

*headdesk*

(Not that I didn't know, but ... you know, past Kripke's lips, it sounds even worse.)

Comments

[bunnymcfoo.livejournal.com]

oh thank god, I'm NOT part of THAT fandom anymore.


Oh hey, Kripke? Plz to reference the following, and realize that I am making appropriate gestures in your direction, you utter, utter, ass.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I swear I'm going to end up just watching the show this season and not reading reactions or fanfic or anything. I'll be much less annoyed that way.

I mean, I know the show is bad for me, like eating Cheetos for breakfast every morning, but at least it doesn't make my blood boil.

[bunnymcfoo.livejournal.com]

I can't. I wish I could still watch, because my love for season one is still THERE and massive. But like, I see the issues waaaay to clearly on screen, and there's nothing to balance them out like there tends to be with Joss's shows.


I get rage blackouts way too easily these days, and that makes me sad.

[titti]

I'm still going to read fanfic, but it's time to back away from this fandom. It annoys me to no end.

[telaryn.livejournal.com]

Are women as small a portion of the show's demographic as Kripke's increasingly assinine comments (and the direction of the show) would seem to indicate?

Because I can sort-of understand the total lack of awareness if we *are*. If we're as large as I suspect, however...dayum.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Seriously, most of the fandom and nearly all of the fans I've ever met are women. And it's only the vocal minority who don't want women on the show at all. Albeit, a VERY vocal minority, but still.

I just want them to write them better, personally.

[kerri]

Huh, you really think so? I'd have said, judging by my flist, that a lot of the fans of SPN don't want recurring love interests - they seem to grow a love for them just when they know that they're going to be cut out, finally.

I mean, I do think that Kripke thinks that with Dean and Sam's lifestyle is too mobile to not have the 'girl in every port' thing, and I get that. But my impression of fandom is that there are far, far more many viewers who don't want females involved than just a vocal minority. Not just from my flist, either, but from the way that Kripke has talked about it.

[telaryn.livejournal.com]

That was where I was too - every single fan I've interacted with regarding this show is female.

And yet we've got an almost catastrophic rise in misogyny going on, and an attitude permeating the writing that this is a boys club show - no girls allowed.

I do not get it.

[killerweasel.livejournal.com]

SPN is one of the few shows coming back this fall that I'm not excited about. Maybe I will be after the first episode.

I think part of it has to do with a large part of fandom acting like complete and utter asshats to the point where the writers are mucking about with the shows just to make the vocal people shut the hell up.

95% of the shows fans seem to be female, wouldn't you think they'd want females on the show too? Good gravy, people.

The male characters on the show should be able to have some kind of relationship, romantic or not, with female characters without that incredibly shrill and loud part of fandom going batshit.

Meh.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

I swear to God, I'm going to end up writing my own damn original story with two asskicking brothers, except there's also going to be an asskicking woman or two around who may or may not fall in love with them. Maybe. Maybe not. I don't even know. Mostly because that will not be the primary reason for her to be there.

...

...

...

... oh, God, why is it that lately I've only been getting new story ideas for original novels when I get frustrated at something in fandom?!

*headdesk*

[onelittlesleep.livejournal.com]

W.T.F. I've never heard of a creator give SO MUCH fan service as he does!

WOW, grow a BACKBONE, dude. Give us not what we WANT but what we NEED and don't know we need.

That's what a writer DOES. ACK.

[somedayleaving.livejournal.com]

How down are you with spoilers? Cause I have one that may or may not relate exactly to this, and the way Kripke relates to his fans.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Is it about that Kristy chick? 'Cause if it is, I'm almost afraid to ask how he plans on bumping her off.

[somedayleaving.livejournal.com]

yes and no. She was listed as a love interest in the press release about her casting, but at Comic Con, Kripke admitted that he told the press release person to write that to fuck with the fans. He thought it would be funny to see fandom burst into flames if he "admitted" it. Which, to be honest, I totally would have done if I were him. But I'm a sadistic bitch who thinks fandom is this curious insect that I like to observe in its natural habitat. People out there are just so *weird.*

Anyway, my THEORY is that she's Ruby, but I don't actually know that for certain.

In other news, I know a straight male SPN fan. WE FOUND ONE! But he's not even an observer of fandom like I am.

[allthelivesofme.livejournal.com]

Oy.

I want Ellen and Missouri and Sarah back, first of all. ((and okay, it doesn't exactly fall into this post's topic but while I'm at it I want John back, too))

And I want new female characters-- not just Lilith or demons inhabiting females, but female human characters. Ones who end up falling on the side of good or bad; vindictive or sarcastic or sweet. Heck, while I'm being greedy, give me some of each.

Because it's a show about them traveling and so they'll be meeting new people, but it's also a show about how close the two of them are and them kindof making a family of sorts when everything else is so unstable and for them to have no women at all in said family because the writers aren't up to trying or because a segment of fandom will have a panic attack just takes something away from the show itself. Because only having meaningful interactions and friendships with men doesn't strike me as realistic.

Hmph.

[baileytc.livejournal.com]

I don't want a "love interest." I want a strong, interesting female character. If she happens to get into a relationship with one of the guys, that's fine.

Unfortunately, Kripke & Company have virtually NO IDEA how to introduce a character who is intended from the outset to recur. Jo had a lot of unrealized potential but was doomed from the start by mishandled characterization (per Alona Tal, she was told Jo was "the female Dean") and a horrible "meet cute" intro.

Bela was interesting in "Bad Day at Black Rock" but went swiftly downhill once she started showing up every episode or two to make the guys look like bumbling idiots.

I liked Ruby as a character--although she had possibly the worst intro in TV history--because she was connected to the mythology and thus had a reason to show up on a regular basis. I hope Ruby pops back up again this season, no matter who plays her.

Ellen has been the biggest success so far, I think, possibly because 1. the producers think she's too old (ha!) for a love interest, so they didn't try to manufacture opportunities to put her together with one of the boys, and 2. the actress is quite good, so she made an excellent impression with everything they gave her.

It's quite telling--not of the producers' attitudes toward women, but of the writing staff's ability to write female characters--that the most successful recurring character by far is Bobby, who was NOT intended to be a recurring character. They do much better with "organic" characters than with pre-fabricated ones.

[apocalypsos.livejournal.com]

Yes, all of this. Especially that first bit. Develop her first, give me a relationship if they develop realistic chemistry later. If we're going to have a love story, don't give me an arranged marriage, give me an organic romance.

[tinylegacies.livejournal.com]

I agree with pretty much all of your points.

Jo definitely had a ton of unrealized potential and was not written consistently.

Ruby's intro was SO Mary Sue-ish, but she swiftly became interesting with the demon reveal. And she did have a lot of reasons to show back up.

Ellen was AWESOME and I am so sad that she hasn't shown up anymore.

The only thing I disagree about is Bela - I think she had amazing potential as well and mostly got shafted by the writer's strike. Her story could have unfolded in a more gradual and organic manner if the season hadn't been shortened.

[lunardreamed.livejournal.com]

All these comments make me sad.

SPN isn't a really awesome show. I watch it because it makes awesome fanfiction (which isn't to say it isn't enjoyable but I probably wouldn't watch it if I didn't have fanfiction to make up for its limitations). But lately I've been listening to and seeing a lot of fanfic writers withdrawing because of crazy fandom. It makes me want to tell that loud group to shut the fuck up so I can have my fiction back. Is that very selfish? Oh well.

Yeah, I don't want a "love interest for the boys." I agree that I watch the show, and read the fic for SamandDean. But I do want to see female characters that aren't stereotypes, and I don't agree that just because they have "failed" at writing women in the past means they should just not bother. That doesn't seem like a good way to handle it.

And I don't agree that they failed at writing women. With the exception of Bela, because, yes, she turned them into bumbling idiots which I found frustrating.

Also, I don't follow fandom and gossip about the show very well, yet I've seen several comments, like the one on Ausiello, that indicate that there is a substantial group, that is clearly less vocal and vitriolic, that does enjoy female characters and how they've been portrayed. So, why isn't Kripke listening to them? It's so frustrating to see how "female character" is never discussed as anything but "love interest," as though people are incapable of comprehending another purpose for her. So, you can't get anyone to seriously consider the idea without immediately being driving to the worst case scenario.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

With the exception of Bela, because, yes, she turned them into bumbling idiots which I found frustrating.

You know, people say this, but the show has a history of making them morons when the plot needs them to not know something, even before Bela showed up, so I really don't buy it as an argument, not from fans and not from Kripke.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I saw that this morning and had to work not to put my fist through my monitor. I am so sick of Kripke's fanservice bullshit. I don't want love interests. I want recurring female characters who make sense with the world, and don't get killed off because a batshit insane yet vocal portion of the fandom screeches bloody murder whenever a woman under the age of forty recurs.

I am still exceptionally angry about how Bela played out, and how Kripke blamed the character rather than his own writing staff for not handling her properly.

[ficangel.livejournal.com]

Oh, Kripke. You are at this point even more of a bullshit coward than Damon and Carlton are, and you can go fuck yourself every bit as hard. I'm not even sure that I can blame the fanservice, when he clearly cannot conceive of any female being on this show ever without her existence somehow being related to fucking one of the brothers.

God. I'm like you: the post-apocalyptic thing that I'm doing for NaWriMo this year? The emotastic POV dude turns out not to be the prophecy child after all, the snarky chick side character with her shit together is, just because I hate that formula so much.

[ficangel.livejournal.com]

Hi. Sorry, I was trying to reply to trollprincess's post in general, not dive-bomb your inbox. But I love that we wound up choosing the same icon material.

I so need to get a paid account again, so that I can have some Wendy Watson icons, too.

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

*sigh* Thank goodness I'm not wildly fannish about this show. I think it would break my heart if I was. I'm still planning on watching S4 at this point, but that doesn't exactly sound promising, there. Fortunately, the SPN folks on my flist are generally sensible folk.

[dragonsinger.livejournal.com]

Oh, for crying out loud! He's unbending when it comes to the music, but flinches everytime the crazy fangirls wail. What gives? This universe needs a couple of permenant strong female characters (think Ellen).